Limited Run-Through: VRE to College Park Green&Purple

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Re: Limited Run-Through: VRE to College Park Green&Purple

Postby Jeff Smith » Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:48 am

Sorry for the interruption/delay. Reminder, let's keep the politics to a low roar, or how about just low? I didn't see the posts (moderator cleaned them), so I don't know how inflammatory or how much hyperbole' came with them; I just came to unlock the topic. Reminder: politics are allowed to the extent that they pertain to railroads, and must not contain the aforementioned hyperbole'. Thanks.
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Re: Limited Run-Through: VRE to College Park Green&Purple

Postby Arlington » Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:27 am

STrRedWolf wrote: think the road crossings (ether at grade level or on bridges/tunnels) will add more cost (and probably will double the bill).

Woah, there. If that kind of stuff is involved, then let's try just either station sidings or a freight siding someplace it does not trigger bridge work.
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Re: Limited Run-Through: VRE to College Park Green&Purple

Postby STrRedWolf » Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:41 pm

Arlington wrote:Woah, there. If that kind of stuff is involved, then let's try just either station sidings or a freight siding someplace it does not trigger bridge work.


That wouldn't work to the satisfaction of all parties (CSX and MARC). Remember, the line's schedule is *FULL*. You can't shove more in there unless you add flexibility and capacity. Plus, the schedule for the MARC on the Camden Line is a dance between CSX, Amtrak, and MARC. The Brunswick line is even worse in that regard. If you want to put VRE trains there, you need the extra line for CSX to free up the capacity TO put VRE trains on it.

Besides, there's already sidings at Greenbelt, but if you got a freight right behind the MARC train, that's a trapped passenger train right there, and you're not going into DC anytime quickly. MARC doesn't like delays as much as Amtrak does, especially when they get called on it. The only real use for the sidings are to turn MARC trains around when they can't get into DC due to a train breaking down or some person getting struck (and killed) by a train (MARC or Freight).
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Re: Limited Run-Through: VRE to College Park Green&Purple

Postby scratchy » Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:02 pm

Arlington wrote:
STrRedWolf wrote: think the road crossings (ether at grade level or on bridges/tunnels) will add more cost (and probably will double the bill).

Woah, there. If that kind of stuff is involved, then let's try just either station sidings or a freight siding someplace it does not trigger bridge work.

Is the CSX demand the entire route have an additional track? There is room for an extra track for a few miles between Greenbelt and College Park past the ex Wapo facility and Quarry where a steam locomotive was abandoned for years.
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Re: Limited Run-Through: VRE to College Park Green&Purple

Postby MCL1981 » Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:31 pm

It's not that they necessarily demand additional track. It's that they demand no additional interference with their freight traffic and no loss of revenue in the process. For practical purposes, there is no way to accomplish that without adding track. And you can bet CSX will require compensation for any loss of revenue during construction.
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Re: Limited Run-Through: VRE to College Park Green&Purple

Postby scratchy » Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:06 pm

Speaking of track construction in that area, did the 7000 series WMATA test track ever get used?
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Re: Limited Run-Through: VRE to College Park Green&Purple

Postby Arlington » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:41 pm

And, maybe the FBI's HQ site on the east side of Greenbelt station, instead of adding 3000 new parking spots (to their previously-proposed 3,000 for a total of 6,000 spots for 11,000 employees on site), should be encouraged to help pay for VRE.
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Re: Limited Run-Through: VRE to College Park Green&Purple

Postby MCL1981 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:58 am

The money spent paving a parking would be spit in the ocean to the cost of expanding rail infrastructure from Union to Greenbelt.
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Re: Limited Run-Through: VRE to College Park Green&Purple

Postby Arlington » Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:20 pm

FBI is proposing structured parking (paving would take a larger site and consume more wetlands/flatlands) so their parking is not going to be cheap. I'm not saying the FBI alone would pay for everything from Ivy City to Greenbelt, but they're certainly a stakeholder alongside VA DRPT, MTA, and DDOT.
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Re: Limited Run-Through: VRE to College Park Green&Purple

Postby JDC » Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:54 pm

scratchy wrote:Speaking of track construction in that area, did the 7000 series WMATA test track ever get used?


The track is now being used to commission 7000-series cars.
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Re: Limited Run-Through: VRE to College Park Green&Purple

Postby Arlington » Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:52 pm

A third track from Ivy City to Greenbelt had been in the 2015 and 2020 scenarios of MARC's 2007 strategic plan.
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Re: Limited Run-Through: VRE to College Park Green&Purple

Postby MCL1981 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:05 am

Arlington wrote:FBI is proposing structured parking (paving would take a larger site and consume more wetlands/flatlands) so their parking is not going to be cheap. I'm not saying the FBI alone would pay for everything from Ivy City to Greenbelt, but they're certainly a stakeholder alongside VA DRPT, MTA, and DDOT.


Making the parking garage bigger is still spit in the ocean to a 150-200 million dollar rail infrastructure, equipment, and personnel upgrade.
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Re: Limited Run-Through: VRE to College Park Green&Purple

Postby Arlington » Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:40 am

Here's my math, I'd like to see yours:
Parking garages cost between $10k and $20k per spot. 3,000 structured spots at FBI HQ could easily cost $30m to $60m, which would represent a significant contribution (either big spit or small ocean). I'm not saying the FBI could/should fund the whole upgrade from Ivy City to Greenbelt, but they could sure catalyze a lot of MTA/VRE action for $30m.

Or for $30m, the FBI could near-entirely fund a Greenbelt station siding, good for passing & turning a VRE train, and slab-and-shelter station.

The FBI's first thought is parking. It'd be up to PG County and MTA to talk to them about car-lite/transit-focused alternatives, just like they would for any owner/developer. At some point PG County will want more TOD along the Purple Line too, and some of that might also yield $ toward a better nexus at Greenbelt.

I also have to believe that the FBI has a substantial number of employees living in Virginia and along the Shady Grove side of the Red who are losing good transit commutes in the move from Metro Center to Greenbelt. The move is very BRAC-like in its dynamics. Nobody wants these transit riders loaded into cars and onto the Beltway. VRE options to Greenbelt would be very powerful.
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