All 4000 series railcars being pulled from service

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All 4000 series railcars being pulled from service

Postby YOLO » Thu Nov 17, 2016 4:02 pm

There apparently is an issue with the speed commands and they are being removed from the tracks. They may belly them in the middle like 1Ks later down the road.

https://beta.wmata.com/about/news/4k-im ... emoval.cfm
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Re: All 4000 series railcars being pulled from service

Postby Chris Brown » Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:24 pm

I say start running the 7k's as 6-car trains and remove ALL the 4K cars from the tracks NOW and forever.
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Re: All 4000 series railcars being pulled from service

Postby tommyboy6181 » Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:28 pm

The press release was updated to say that Metro will belly the cars, same as what's already done with the 1k.
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Re: All 4000 series railcars being pulled from service

Postby STrRedWolf » Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:18 pm

Updated release: http://www.wmata.com/about_metro/news/P ... aseID=6190

At least this time the work-around is concrete (belly the cars so the probability of generating a false speed signal is nil). The issue is electrical or electronic in nature, not mechanical (like the weakness of the 1000 series frames).
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Re: All 4000 series railcars being pulled from service

Postby MCL1981 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:32 am

I'm expecting this morning to be a mess. Probably this afternoon too. Unless they managed to rearrange hundreds of train sets overnight, which I have very little faith in. If a train had a bunch of 1000s bellied between two pairs of 4s, that whole train is out of service until they pull equipment off another set to lead. This mess will require a lot of shuffling of equipment to rebuild complete usable train sets.

At the end of the day, this might result in a few less total trains, but quite likely more of the trains will be 8 cars now. Part of me said said "good, just throw them away and don't use them anymore. But that's probably not a reduction in capacity we can tolerate right now.

There is no reason in the world to break up the 7000s into 6 car sets. WMATA has made it very clear from day one they do not ever intend to do such thing for plenty of good reasons that haven't changed.
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Re: All 4000 series railcars being pulled from service

Postby JDC » Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:56 am

This morning's commute seemed normal, no mess. Actually it seemed quiet. I think this is a good time for such a problem to arise because of the upcoming holiday and people on vacation.
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Re: All 4000 series railcars being pulled from service

Postby Chris Brown » Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:04 pm

MCL1981 wrote:There is no reason in the world to break up the 7000s into 6 car sets. WMATA has made it very clear from day one they do not ever intend to do such thing for plenty of good reasons that haven't changed.


Everyone keeps saying that, but I have yet to hear these so called "good reasons" not to run the 7k's in 6 car sets. What are they exactly?
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Re: All 4000 series railcars being pulled from service

Postby JDC » Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:04 pm

I'll leave it to SBJ to be exact, but I believe it has to do with the chance that, if a train of 6 cars had a mechanical failure, than it is more difficult to navigate the train back to the yard because it's missing one of the married pairs that would be part of one of the quads.
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Re: All 4000 series railcars being pulled from service

Postby Backshophoss » Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:43 pm

If the "blind end" of split quad(7 K) is the used,the hostler controls only allow 15 mph MAS when used,an unwanted slow crawl
to clear up somewhere during peak rush hour times.
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Re: All 4000 series railcars being pulled from service

Postby STrRedWolf » Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:31 pm

An interesting tidbit in Greater Greater Washington's coverage:

The National Transportation Safety Board instructed Metro to remove all 1000 series trains from service after the 2009 crash at Fort Totten since they're not able to protect passengers in a crash. And due to the reliability issues with the 4000 series cars, Metro's Chief Operating Officer noted Tuesday evening that the agency would be petitioning the NTSB and FTA to be allowed to remove these cars at the same time as the 1000s. If approved, Metro would be able to remove 12 4000 series and eight 1000-series cars per month, which would keep up with the new railcar deliveries.
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Re: All 4000 series railcars being pulled from service

Postby JackRussell » Sat Nov 19, 2016 8:04 am

Backshophoss wrote:If the "blind end" of split quad(7 K) is the used,the hostler controls only allow 15 mph MAS when used,an unwanted slow crawl
to clear up somewhere during peak rush hour times.


A consist out on the mainline wouldn't have a blind end - one would have an operator cab on both ends so that one can reverse the train at the end of the line.

The only way the hosteler controls would ever need to be used that if there is some issue that requires them to break the consist while out on the mainline.
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Re: All 4000 series railcars being pulled from service

Postby Sand Box John » Sat Nov 19, 2016 9:15 am

"Chris Brown"
Everyone keeps saying that, but I have yet to hear these so called "good reasons" not to run the 7k's in 6 car sets. What are they exactly?


quote="JDC"
I'll leave it to SBJ to be exact, but I believe it has to do with the chance that, if a train of 6 cars had a mechanical failure, than it is more difficult to navigate the train back to the yard because it's missing one of the married pairs that would be part of one of the quads.


WMATA's allegedly reason for running them in only 8 car consists is they don't want to take the risk of having one of the pairs crap the bed on the mainline and end up having to break up the train and move one of the two part of the train back to a yard from the hostler cab.

This reasoning when out the window when people began spotting one or both of the 4 car sets in trains made up with A cars coupled to B cars.

Fact is, I have never heard of WMATA having to break up a train on the mainline to move it back to a yard.
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Re: All 4000 series railcars being pulled from service

Postby Chris Brown » Sun Nov 20, 2016 12:53 am

Why break up the train? Why not just take the entire train to the yard?

So far no good reasons why the 7k's can't run as 6 car trains lol.
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Re: All 4000 series railcars being pulled from service

Postby mmi16 » Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:55 pm

Locked traction motor - wheel won't turn - unable to rewheel account extenuating circumstance.
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Re: All 4000 series railcars being pulled from service

Postby JackRussell » Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:21 pm

That would be one. Locked brakes would be a similar situation.

A third circumstance is a derailment where they might want to remove the cars that are still on the rails. This is obviously in a category all by itself as the mainline is guaranteed to be blocked for a considerable amount of time no matter what.

All of these ought be extremely rare events.
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