WMATA 8000 Series Rail Cars

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Re: WMATA 8000 Series Rail Cars

Postby Sand Box John » Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:23 am

"Chris Brown"
That means they probably plan to rehab the 6k series right? The 2k and 3k cars need to be retired around 2023. Are they really going to run them into the ground for another 5 years?


The 2 and 3k cars got their mid life rehabilitation at roughly the same age as the 1k cars. As part of that rehabilitation they were given structural improvements that were not given to the 1k cars. The big difference between the 1k cars and the 2 and 3k cars is they weren't run like scalded dogs for 1/3 of their life like the 1k cars were.
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Re: WMATA 8000 Series Rail Cars

Postby D40LF » Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:06 am

Sand Box John wrote:"Chris Brown"
That means they probably plan to rehab the 6k series right? The 2k and 3k cars need to be retired around 2023. Are they really going to run them into the ground for another 5 years?


The 2 and 3k cars got their mid life rehabilitation at roughly the same age as the 1k cars. As part of that rehabilitation they were given structural improvements that were not given to the 1k cars. The big difference between the 1k cars and the 2 and 3k cars is they weren't run like scalded dogs for 1/3 of their life like the 1k cars were.


What kind of structural improvements were made? I assume they probably fixed any corrosion damage, but was more done? I was under the impression that the NTSB was still concerned about the crash safety of the Breda cars.

If they are going to wait longer for the 8000 Series car procurement, it could make sense to replace the 6ks while they're at it. Having just two fleets would bring benefits in areas like maintenance. However right now the 6000s are in excellent shape and very reliable, so it would be difficult to justify an early retirement to the FTA.
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Re: WMATA 8000 Series Rail Cars

Postby Sand Box John » Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:10 am

"D40LF"
What kind of structural improvements were made? I assume they probably fixed any corrosion damage, but was more done? I was under the impression that the NTSB was still concerned about the crash safety of the Breda cars.


They had their buffer strength upgraded along with other improvements. Mind you those improvements came nowhere near the crash worthiness specifications that was implemented in the the 7k car design.
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Re: WMATA 8000 Series Rail Cars

Postby Chris Brown » Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:20 pm

Sand Box John wrote:"Chris Brown"
That means they probably plan to rehab the 6k series right? The 2k and 3k cars need to be retired around 2023. Are they really going to run them into the ground for another 5 years?


The 2 and 3k cars got their mid life rehabilitation at roughly the same age as the 1k cars. As part of that rehabilitation they were given structural improvements that were not given to the 1k cars. The big difference between the 1k cars and the 2 and 3k cars is they weren't run like scalded dogs for 1/3 of their life like the 1k cars were.



But why is the procurement of 8000 series cars being delayed for 5 years? What is the thinking behind that decision?

Even if the 2k and 3k cars are very reliable at the moment, another few years on the rails can see that reliability drop. Then we have another 4k situation with constant breakdowns, etc. Obviously better maintenance will help, but everything has a shelf life no matter how well you take care of it. Otherwise NYC would still be running their original rail cars from the 1800's.
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Re: WMATA 8000 Series Rail Cars

Postby Sand Box John » Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:46 pm

"Chris Brown"
But why is the procurement of 8000 series cars being delayed for 5 years? What is the thinking behind that decision?


I can think of few reasons:
* Declining ridership.
* reduced service and.
* less mileage.

The declining ridership is the result of reduced confidence and reduced service. Reduced service equals less mileage. Less mileage equals longer service life. Baltimore and Miami procured larger fleets for their railroads then WMATA did. Folks from WMATA when visiting those properties were amazed at how things were in such good working order. They were that way because their larger fleets allowed lower annual mileage and more time for preventive maintenance.
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Re: WMATA 8000 Series Rail Cars

Postby Chris Brown » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:32 am

Sand Box John wrote:"Chris Brown"
But why is the procurement of 8000 series cars being delayed for 5 years? What is the thinking behind that decision?


I can think of few reasons:
* Declining ridership.
* reduced service and.
* less mileage.

The declining ridership is the result of reduced confidence and reduced service. Reduced service equals less mileage. Less mileage equals longer service life. Baltimore and Miami procured larger fleets for their railroads then WMATA did. Folks from WMATA when visiting those properties were amazed at how things were in such good working order. They were that way because their larger fleets allowed lower annual mileage and more time for preventive maintenance.


Make sense.

But with the current growth rate of the DC area (plus the possibility of Amazon moving here) I don't see the dip in ridership lasting all that long. It will probably meet or exceed peak levels by around 2022.

A consistent problem with WMATA is making decisions based too much on the reality of today. WMATA often lacks foresight. That's why they are always reacting to problems instead of avoiding them through better planning.
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Re: WMATA 8000 Series Rail Cars

Postby Sand Box John » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:06 pm

"Chris Brown"
But with the current growth rate of the DC area (plus the possibility of Amazon moving here) I don't see the dip in ridership lasting all that long. It will probably meet or exceed peak levels by around 2022.


The odds of Amazon setting up shop in the Washington area are about the same as me being nominated by the Democratic Party to run for the office of President of The United States in 2020.

A consistent problem with WMATA is making decisions based too much on the reality of today. WMATA often lacks foresight. That's why they are always reacting to problems instead of avoiding them through better planning.

Planers in every government entity have their own fiefdom. What ends up happening is one hand doesn't bother to look at what the other is doing. WMATA can plan until they are blue in the face and some other government entity will come along and do something that screws everything up. Like I have said before, I have been observing the evolution of WMATA for nearly a half of century, and have seen that happen numerous times.
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Re: WMATA 8000 Series Rail Cars

Postby MCL1981 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:07 am

They would be foolish to come here. Building anything on the assumption Amazon will setup an HQ in the most business-unfriendly location on earth that is gridlocked 10 hours per day is ludicrous.
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Re: WMATA 8000 Series Rail Cars

Postby drwho9437 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:58 pm

Although I think there are better places to put HQ2 in the 20 remaining than the DC metro area
MCL1981 wrote:They would be foolish to come here. Building anything on the assumption Amazon will setup an HQ in the most business-unfriendly location on earth that is gridlocked 10 hours per day is ludicrous.


Having lived in CA, NY and the DC metro I can attest that DC is *not* the most business-unfriendly location and has better transportation infrastructure than many other places in the country, even with the problems of the moment. Is it business friendly? No. VA is better than MD or DC for sure on that front. Are there more business friendly places in the country? Yes. Absolutely. But tech pays for the high rents in the Bay because of access to human capital more than anything else. The DC area has a lot more of the people in it that they want to hire than many other areas that might have better business policies. Simply put they didn't put 3/20 of the list in the DC metro for no reason. The reason they did wasn't WMATA it was who lives in the region.
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Re: WMATA 8000 Series Rail Cars

Postby Backshophoss » Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:25 pm

DO you know HOW BAD 95/495/Beltway will get fouled up? Put that "HQ" in and that is permanent GRIDLOCK at that exit!!!
IT would make the Eastside Beltway unusable,forcing more traffic to the Westside of the Beltway!!! :( :( :(

As for the 8000 series,should be a simple design upgrade of the 7000 series,nothing more,nothing less!
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Re: WMATA 8000 Series Rail Cars

Postby mtuandrew » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:15 pm

Moderator’s Note: enough with Amazon and probability.

Redacted several posts.
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Re: WMATA 8000 Series Rail Cars

Postby Chris Brown » Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:37 am

Backshophoss wrote:
As for the 8000 series,should be a simple design upgrade of the 7000 series,nothing more,nothing less!


Yeah I agree. Another total design overhaul so soon would be silly. Just add more passenger-friendly features like better electronic displays, USB ports, etc.

Better to wait for dramatic improvements in technology before making big leaps.
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Re: WMATA 8000 Series Rail Cars

Postby YOLO » Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:08 pm

Pretty sure the 8000 series will be a re-design. I've heard that it won't be compatible with the 7Ks regardless of how they design it. I still think they're just gonna copy the R211 design though.
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Re: WMATA 8000 Series Rail Cars

Postby YOLO » Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:21 am

WMATA has a RFP out for this. Design/procurement of 8000 series trains and rehab of 6000 series trains. https://www.wmata.com/Business/procurem ... on_id=3716
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Re: WMATA 8000 Series Rail Cars

Postby YOLO » Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:34 pm

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