WMATA 8000 Series Rail Cars

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WMATA 8000 Series Rail Cars

Postby Chris Brown » Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:22 pm

I know its early, but this topic is inevitable. Any predictions for the 8000 series? Do you think they will just be exact copies of the 7000 series like what Metro did with the 2/3/4k cars where almost no changes were made?

I know the 8000 series will be a smaller order. The current plan is for them to replace the 2/3k cars. The 6k's will be rehabbed to be compatible with the 7k and 8k cars.

My only prediction is reduced seating or a different seating layout. Maybe USB ports to charge Laptops and smart phones too. I doubt Metro will change much else.
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Re: WMATA 8000 Series Rail Cars

Postby JDC » Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:32 pm

I don't see them having USB charging ports, or any charging ports. Just another thing to try and maintain. They would also likely only be at the seats, so that limits their availability. You would not want to place them anywhere where people congregate, like near doors or walkway. Except for riders coming from far ends, most people are not on the train long enough to really justify that. That is a feature of trains, not subways IMO.

I'd personally love open gangways, but SBJ has discussed how Metro's shops are not equipped to handle that, so I don't see that happening. Maybe different seating configurations, but the 7000-series seems to handle the crowds rather well with the larger walkway and 8-car consists. I bet they are very, very similar to 7ks.
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Re: WMATA 8000 Series Rail Cars

Postby Sand Box John » Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:11 pm

Before WMATA even considers drawing up the specification for the next rolling stock procurement, two things must happen first.
  • WMATA must solve the issue that prevents the reliable automatic stopping of 8 car trains at station platforms.
  • And solve the issue of trains opening their doors on the wrong side or off the platform when the ATP subsystem that is suppose to prevent same is enabled.
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Re: WMATA 8000 Series Rail Cars

Postby Chris Brown » Sun Sep 04, 2016 1:16 pm

JDC wrote:I don't see them having USB charging ports, or any charging ports. Just another thing to try and maintain. They would also likely only be at the seats, so that limits their availability. You would not want to place them anywhere where people congregate, like near doors or walkway. Except for riders coming from far ends, most people are not on the train long enough to really justify that. That is a feature of trains, not subways IMO.

I'd personally love open gangways, but SBJ has discussed how Metro's shops are not equipped to handle that, so I don't see that happening. Maybe different seating configurations, but the 7000-series seems to handle the crowds rather well with the larger walkway and 8-car consists. I bet they are very, very similar to 7ks.


The NYC subway is getting USB ports for their newest cars:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrZUsCLY4qA
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Re: WMATA 8000 Series Rail Cars

Postby MCL1981 » Tue Sep 06, 2016 7:34 am

If metro had USB ports for charging, they'd find a way to accidentally energize the 5 volt DC ports with 700 volt traction power and kill a car load of people on the first day. Bad idea.

Before Metro even thinks about this, they should probably finish the 7000 procurement they have going now. And maybe, you know, fix the railroad.
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Re: WMATA 8000 Series Rail Cars

Postby Chris Brown » Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:05 pm

Lol, I think you're being a little dramatic.

The 8000 series is going happen at some point so why not talk about some of the new changes that might come with them? We already have threads dedicated to the 7k's and "fixing the railroad".

Even with all its faults.. Metro still makes an effort to improve their technology. They have gone paperless, they are adding new escalators and fair gates and now new rail cars with better technology than any other system in the U.S. The 8000 series is another opportunity for improvement.
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Re: WMATA 8000 Series Rail Cars

Postby DMClark » Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:46 am

According to my friend that works for WMATA (so hearsay and should be taken with a grain of salt):

The 8000 series will be exactly the same as the 7000 from Kawasaki. It will just have the latest software updates etc.
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Re: WMATA 8000 Series Rail Cars

Postby Sand Box John » Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:58 pm

"DMClark"
According to my friend that works for WMATA (so hearsay and should be taken with a grain of salt):

The 8000 series will be exactly the same as the 7000 from Kawasaki. It will just have the latest software updates etc.


That the thinking I was having. Sometime before WMATA and Kawasaki windup the production on the last option WMATA negotiate a new deal Kawasaki to produce X number of more cars. WMATA gets the next batch of cars at a reasonable price because virtually all of the tooling doesn't have to be created from scratch.
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Re: WMATA 8000 Series Rail Cars

Postby MCL1981 » Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:49 pm

I think that is reasonable. I see nothing new and earth shattering that needs to be or could be added, removed, or changed. At least nothing that would be worth millions and millions of extra dollars to change.
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Re: WMATA 8000 Series Rail Cars

Postby JDC » Fri Sep 09, 2016 1:12 pm

This makes me wonder whether it will be truly a 8000-series, or just another X number of 7000 series. I guess they would have to start with 8000, since they'd be up to 7745 or so.
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Re: WMATA 8000 Series Rail Cars

Postby tommyboy6181 » Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:31 pm

I'm guessing that the 8k would have very minor modifications if anything. Maybe changing the headlights to LED technology, and having updated software as the modifications. The only other thing I'm guessing is that since PMSM propulsion systems are becoming more common, they could be a possible option this time around (Toshiba leads in these types of systems). Other than that, I don't see a reinvention of the wheel.
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Re: WMATA 8000 Series Rail Cars

Postby Chris Brown » Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:09 pm

Its easy to assume there won't be much of a change right now.. but we have to remember technology is constantly improving and changing. By the time WMATA orders the 8K cars the current technology for the 7K's will already be somewhat outdated. It will also come at a time when the 7k's have been in service long enough to truly evaluate their strengths and weaknesses. No product is ever "perfect" and the longer the 7K's roll on the tracks the more we will learn their imperfections. Whatever consistent problems or issues they find with the 7K's will probably be improved or changed with the 8k's.
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Re: WMATA 8000 Series Rail Cars

Postby Sand Box John » Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:51 pm

"Chris Brown"
Its easy to assume there won't be much of a change right now.. but we have to remember technology is constantly improving and changing. By the time WMATA orders the 8K cars the current technology for the 7K's will already be somewhat outdated. It will also come at a time when the 7k's have been in service long enough to truly evaluate their strengths and weaknesses. No product is ever "perfect" and the longer the 7K's roll on the tracks the more we will learn their imperfections. Whatever consistent problems or issues they find with the 7K's will probably be improved or changed with the 8k's.


The 7k cars were a giant leap when compared to the previous rolling stock. WMATA went from 1920 propulsion control technology to 1990s propulsion control technology in the previous rolling stock, DC cam control to DC power electronics to variable frequency AC induction. Multiple unit control was basically the same technology that Frank Sprague developed in 1880s. The 1880s multiple unit control still exists in the 7k cars to maintain compatibility with the older rolling stock at the most basic control level. The 7k cars also employs a control technology that allows communication over a ethernet based network, that's where the giant leap is. The ethernet based network also allow a single point connection for diagnosing system faults for repair. The physical cars themselves are a step backwards to a more traditional structural design.

Me thinks the 8ks will not much different then the 7k cars at both the hardware and software level for obvious reasons. And like you said any improvements will be related to issues found in the 7k cars.
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Re: WMATA 8000 Series Rail Cars

Postby STrRedWolf » Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:33 am

Besides, if you're wanting USB ports, maybe you should carry a small USB battery you can get cheap off of Amazon? I carry a 5000 mAh USB battery in case my iPhone is about dead and the battery backpack on it was already used. (Yeah, I use it heavily, and not Pokemon Go).
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Re: WMATA 8000 Series Rail Cars

Postby djlong » Mon Sep 12, 2016 8:22 am

To me, the major technology that can have the most impact is open gangways. I've personally seen how well this works in Europe and *eventually* people are going to like the idea of increasing capacity by 10% or more without expensive signalling projects or more tracks or rebuilding stations for longer trains.
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