MARC HHP-8

Discussion related to DC area passenger rail services from Northern Virginia to Baltimore, MD. Includes Light Rail and Baltimore Subway.

Moderators: Robert Paniagua, therock

Re: MARC HHP-8

Postby realtype » Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:56 pm

MARC doesn't seem too concerned about having a single fleet of locomotives. When the MP36's arrived the 6 GP39's (which were actually older than the GP40's, only have HEP for 4 cars, and are speed limited to 70mph) were supposed to be used exclusively for work train service or sold, but to this day they're still hauling commuter trains despite the fact that there are more than enough new diesels in the fleet. Now MARC plans to repower them and keep them in service indefinitely.

The AEM-7's, which were probably screwed up more after the rebuild, should be retired asap. However, MARC should either:
a) keep the HHP-8's and continue with plans to refurbish them and supplement them with ex-Amtrak units
b) purchase an all-new electric fleet of ACS-64's or ALP-46a's

Of course the ridiculous plan to keep the GP39's running in commuter service should also be abandoned. That way MARC would have one electric fleet and one diesel fleet (much better than any other railroad on the NEC).
User avatar
realtype
 
Posts: 1498
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:01 pm
Location: Germantown, MD

Re: MARC HHP-8

Postby r40slant » Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:11 pm

Ummmmm the GP-39's are only rated for 70mph???? Wow I must have missed that change, albeit I don't/won't work a Marc train, but my NEC timetable says 90mph. Eventually they will be gotten rid of for more MP-36's. But with all the mechanical issues with the HHP's Marc definitely want s to absolve itself of Electric motors. Now maybe if the ACS's prove themselves maybe they will revisit the idea. However if Bombardier does indeed get the contract from us eventually, then all diesel fleet will definitely become a reality, due to all maintenance work being done at Riverside.
r40slant
 
Posts: 106
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:52 pm

Re: MARC HHP-8

Postby electricron » Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:08 pm

I think it's safe to assume the GP-39s will eventually be retired from service, but is it safe to assume more MP-36s will be purchased? MARCs coaches are limited to 125 mph max speeds, both diesel and electric locomotives being purchased by or for Amtrak can meet it. So I don't think it is beyond the possibilities for MARC to buy either.
electricron
 
Posts: 3903
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:35 pm

Re: MARC HHP-8

Postby strench707 » Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:24 pm

If MARC goes straight diesel, will they work on getting the MP36's rated for higher speeds?

Davis
User avatar
strench707
 
Posts: 950
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:28 am

Re: MARC HHP-8

Postby DutchRailnut » Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:59 am

for what?? a few seconds per mile time ? and doubling of fuel and maintenance?
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

Retired Triebfahrzeugführer
User avatar
DutchRailnut
 
Posts: 21202
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:02 pm
Location: released from Stalag 13

Re: MARC HHP-8

Postby strench707 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:09 pm

Sorry for such an illegitimate question!

Damn!

Davis
User avatar
strench707
 
Posts: 950
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:28 am

Re: MARC HHP-8

Postby dt_rt40 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:50 pm

"for what?? a few seconds per mile time ?"

Yep...basically the difference between Acela and Regionals.

I don't care what a Dutch Railnut thinks. They used electric locomotives for 20+ years because it was a good idea. Yes, when I ride out to Aberdeen every day, 12 minutes faster makes a big difference over the course of a week. If they are too lazy or cheap to maintain them now, that doesn't mean it has stopped being a good idea.
Tot Ziens!
dt_rt40
 
Posts: 209
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2007 11:45 am
Location: MD

Re: MARC HHP-8

Postby r40slant » Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:19 pm

Guess you gotta add 12 mintues to your schedule. Marc is gonna do whats best money wise for them. Again they may revisit the Motor issues later. The HHP's are becoming too troublesome for them and also the costs of electric service as opposed to diesel fuel factors in also. I don't think they are worried about 12 min cause the trains are pretty crowded despite it.
r40slant
 
Posts: 106
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:52 pm

Re: MARC HHP-8

Postby DutchRailnut » Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:31 pm

the 12 minutes in not difference in speed, but difference in horsepower. its hard to justify a 3600 hp diesel vs a 8000 hp electric. despite what either has for max speed .
rating the MP36 for higher speeds won't get you any faster, it still accelerates like a diesel.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

Retired Triebfahrzeugführer
User avatar
DutchRailnut
 
Posts: 21202
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:02 pm
Location: released from Stalag 13

Re: MARC HHP-8

Postby Stmtrolleyguy » Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:30 am

I've been reading about the HHP8s here, and on the Amtrak forum.

I can understand why, at least for now, they're looking at going all-diesel.
They had 4 AEM7s, and 6 HHP8s - all locomotives that worked pretty much because someone else ordered them in bulk (AMTRAK). Once AMTRAK stops running the HHP8s, you'll be trying to keep up a very small fleet of 6 locomotives - 6 locomotives that don't exist anywhere else. It's not like there are common parts for power assemblies or trucks. No one really knows how long the AEM7s will hang around. AMTRAK could standardize and replace them, too.

Why would they want to do that AGAIN with new electric locomotives? The only all-electric option in the US is the new ACS64 on AMTRAK - and while they seem to be solid now, its still too early to tell if they'll really be any good, and actually be durable locomotives. If they flop on AMTRAK, there's no real guarantee that parts will be around for them in 20 years.

On top of that, there's still numerous questions about the future of the NEC, and its upkeep. Electric locomotives don't work too well when there's no power to the overhead - something that's happened more then a few times recently.

Right now, they could go buy another 10 MP36s, and have one fleet that they shouldn't need to EVER worry about getting parts for. Common engines, common trucks, common body panels - almost none of the equipment is unique to just those 10 locomotives. No more having 5 of this, and 5 of that hanging around that they need parts for. Going all-diesel is a choice - but it gives MARC a fleet of locomotives that will function independently of outside forces, and don't require common parts. They don't need someone else to keep their trains running. (AMTRAK, et. all. to keep the electricity flowing and custom parts in stock.)
Stmtrolleyguy
 
Posts: 214
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:48 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: MARC HHP-8

Postby Backshophoss » Sun May 04, 2014 9:46 pm

The hippo's are not quite dead yet,(it's close)after the teething bugs are cured on Amtrak's ACS-64's,the builder may offer
a Commuter RR version to MARC,SEPTA,and MBTA, a version that can be "contract" maintained at shop of their choise
along the NEC.
MARC currently has to cycle their hippo's and meatballs thru Wilmington for the required FRA inspections,aunnal cab signal/ACSES
certifactions,etc,but may not be happy about Amtrak's bill for services rendered.
Backshophoss
 
Posts: 4585
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:58 pm

Re: MARC HHP-8

Postby dowlingm » Mon May 05, 2014 11:58 am

Assuming that MARC are not likely to simply discontinue electric traction and acknowledging Amtrak and Bombardier are on the outs, are BBD likely to be competitive in a tender scenario if ALP-46A is offered vs ACS-64?
dowlingm
 
Posts: 969
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:42 pm
Location: Toronto, ON

Re: MARC HHP-8

Postby ThirdRail7 » Sat May 10, 2014 6:06 pm

Someone still has to maintain it. It would be an oddball motor in the middle of nowhere.
I want my road foreman!
ThirdRail7
 
Posts: 3968
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:07 pm

Re: MARC HHP-8

Postby dowlingm » Sat May 10, 2014 11:12 pm

true, but less if the order was coordinated with SEPTA's replacement.
dowlingm
 
Posts: 969
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:42 pm
Location: Toronto, ON

Re: MARC HHP-8

Postby ThirdRail7 » Sun May 11, 2014 1:55 am

SEPTA doesn't operate in the same area as MARC. Therefore, they'd have to deadhead the motor to SEPTIC's maintenance facility. That's a lot of effort and fees for an oddball motor.
I want my road foreman!
ThirdRail7
 
Posts: 3968
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:07 pm

PreviousNext

Return to DC - Maryland - Virginia Area Passenger Rail: MTA(MARC), VRE, WMATA(Metro)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests