MARC HHP-8

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MARC HHP-8

Postby Martin Baumann » Thu Dec 26, 2013 9:58 am

What year did these engines enter service? An extensive web search did not provide the answer.

Thanks,

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Re: MARC HHP-8

Postby amtrakhogger » Thu Dec 26, 2013 12:54 pm

Around 2001-2002.
"I will stop at St. Avold."
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Re: MARC HHP-8

Postby TheOneKEA » Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:54 am

When are they likely to go out of service? I don't see the MARC AEM-7s very often anymore and the majority of the Penn Line service seems to be operated by the MP36s.
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Re: MARC HHP-8

Postby Fan Railer » Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:27 pm

Whenever the option of 10 MP36s arrive on property to retire them, which I would estimate to be no later than 2015 or so.
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Re: MARC HHP-8

Postby dt_rt40 » Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:53 am

If we lived in a sane world - and we certainly don't - Bombardier would just sell MARC (or whoever else wants their junk) the HHP-8s for their scrap value. I mean seriously, once the ACS-64s are in service who else is going to want them? It's not like "Advanced 1920s Northeast Corridor Technology" is expanding to other transit corridors in the country. They will in all likelihood end up being scrapped. I don't even know if MARC was leasing them or bought them, point is Amtrak was leasing them and that's the largest # of them out there, obviously. If MARC had 20, it shouldn't be TOO hard to keep 5 running. I'm sure someone at Bombardier is looking for a buyer. Maybe if Bombardier gets incredibly lucky - and throws in a couple shipping containers of jet skis and ATVs - the Chinese will buy them to pull high speed freight trains, high speed bilge trains, or something on their electrified network.
So MARC will no longer be the country's fastest commuter rail station. Yesterday, 125 mph, today 100 mph, maybe when I get lucky and get that cushy tenured government IT job in my old age, they will have the real breakthrough and achieve a maximum of 80 mph. That will be good, I'm not sure I'll be able to handle the excitement of going faster than that when I'm an old man.
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Re: MARC HHP-8

Postby dowlingm » Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:27 am

Assuming no showstopper structural fatigue issues I'd be looking at retrieving and refitting if I was Bombardier, maybe replacing some of the dodgier systems with ALP-46A compatible gear, with an aim of getting them into somewhere like MBTA at a cut-throat rate should they flip to electric on the Providence Line. Now that they are going to be in a tough scrap for Acela2 and Siemens are surging in the space I think BBD does not need to be losing market share by having hippos become razor blades.
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Re: MARC HHP-8

Postby ST214 » Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:06 am

Sorry, but they have zero chance to run up here. The MBTA has already said they are not interested in electrics. If there was interest, they would be trying out one of the BBD dual modes, as sets wander around to other lines. With the electric loco, that flexibility is lost.
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Re: MARC HHP-8

Postby realtype » Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:10 pm

dt_rt40 wrote:<SNIP>So MARC will no longer be the country's fastest commuter rail station. Yesterday, 125 mph, today 100 mph, maybe when I get lucky and get that cushy tenured government IT job in my old age, they will have the real breakthrough and achieve a maximum of 80 mph. That will be good, I'm not sure I'll be able to handle the excitement of going faster than that when I'm an old man.


Ditto. Couldn't have said it better myself

MARC had surprisingly been making great progress modernizing the system and adding service...until they announced that they were retiring the electrics. I feel sorry for riders who commute WAS-Perryville. Every time I travel that route on Amtrak I'm amazed at how long it takes, and of course MARC wants to extend the line to Elkton and Newark (DE) as well.

It's not even that the MP36's have been great locomotives either. I remember that even during the first year MARC was operating them, it wasn't uncommon to see the so-called "clean diesels" belching black smoke and of course they double-head them on the longer Penn Line trains. I think though that I read somewhere that they were going to issue an RFP for an 125mph diesel , and I doubt such a thing exists, so they'll probably end up exercising their options for the MP36s or maybe the newer model MBTA is getting.

This move looks even more boneheaded when you consider that there are two rare opportunities that would solve the electric locomotive problem:

1. As you stated, get the HHP-8's from Amtrak for dirt cheap
2. Order the ACS-64 when Amtrak's order is complete and they've proven their worth
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Re: MARC HHP-8

Postby ThirdRail7 » Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:06 pm

realtype wrote:D I think though that I read somewhere that they were going to issue an RFP for an 125mph diesel , and I doubt such a thing exists, so they'll probably end up exercising their options for the MP36s or maybe the newer model MBTA is getting.


Please allow a brief "fair use" quote to dispel this notion:

http://cumminsengines.com/siemens-and-c ... -in-the-us

Sacramento, Calif., and Columbus, Ind. (Dec. 3, 2013) - Today, Siemens Rail Systems and Cummins announced a partnership that will bring one of the most modern and efficient passenger rail, diesel electric locomotives in the world to the U.S. marketplace. Cummins QSK95 diesel engines will be used in Siemens’ diesel electric locomotives in the U.S., resulting in one of the most energy-efficient, lightweight, smart, diesel electric locomotives available today in North America.

Leveraging Siemens proven rail technology, these locomotives will be designed and built specifically for today’s new train passenger, providing a smoother, more reliable and more energy-efficient riding experience. The state-of-the-art locomotives will also deploy a new engine aftertreatment system that will deliver a cleaner ride with better air quality and reduced emission rates. Importantly, these smarter, lighter trains are being developed with passenger and crew safety top-of-mind.

“Today’s announcement acknowledges a new type of diesel-electric offering, one that is built with the passenger in mind,” explained Michael Cahill, president of Siemens Rail Systems in the U.S. “Our goal is to provide high ride-quality with smooth, safe and efficient performance - for both the locomotive engineers and the passengers - with cost savings for the operators and maintainers,” he continued.

“Our engines are the perfect answer for today’s diesel electric needs: they’re more efficient, lighter and cleaner than engines of this output in the past,” said Ed Pence, Vice President and General Manager – Cummins High-Horsepower Engine Business. “We believe that our high-speed QSK95 engines will not just bring cleaner operation, but will achieve higher performance and lower operating costs than any system utilizing traditional medium speed powered locomotives,” Pence further explained.

The diesel-electric locomotive is uniquely designed, based on Siemens’ global rail expertise with input from U.S. passenger rail operators. This new rail equipment can help operators achieve cost savings, while improving reliability and efficiency for its passenger rail service. The lighter weight of these locomotives ensures the ability to safely operate the locomotives at speeds of up to 125 mph more efficiently, requiring less maintenance.

To further boost American manufacturing through investment in rail, the locomotives will be built and assembled at Siemens’ solar-powered transportation manufacturing facility in Sacramento, California. Siemens has also established a robust and diverse base of U.S. rail suppliers representing all sizes of business across the country that can be leveraged as part of the development of future passenger rail locomotives.

Cummins diesel QSK95 engines will be made in Seymour, Indiana. The 95-liter prime mover is the most powerful high-speed 16-cylinder diesel to be installed in a locomotive generating more than 4000-hp (2983 kW). The first QSK95-powered freight locomotive, with Siemens AC traction equipment and traction control, will begin commercial service operation in a field test with the Indiana Rail Road Company (INRD) in mid-2014 as the first heavy-hauler repower QSK95 installation and is ready to meet U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) Tier 4 ultra-low emissions regulations.


Illinois has already issued a notice of intent to award Siemens the contract for 35 of these diesels. Other states are involved as well, so perhaps this is where Maryland is looking.

realtype wrote:This move looks even more boneheaded when you consider that there are two rare opportunities that would solve the electric locomotive problem:

1. As you stated, get the HHP-8's from Amtrak for dirt cheap
2. Order the ACS-64 when Amtrak's order is complete and they've proven their worth


The HHP-8s may come cheap, but you get what you pay for. They are not reliable in any sort of extreme conditions. As for the ACS-64s, why purchase a few expensive, specialized electric motors that are confined to a specific piece of territory if a new high speed diesel that can go anywhere at anytime is forthcoming?

They are wise to wait it out instead of committing to these confined lemons.
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Re: MARC HHP-8

Postby Jersey_Mike » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:25 pm

EMD actually has a pretty good legal challenge against the IDoT contract because they did the math and 4000hp is not enough to get a train of the specified weight and acceleration up to 125mph.
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Re: MARC HHP-8

Postby DutchRailnut » Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:29 am

Don't worry when it comes to EMD they have not performed according to specifications since about 1960's in passenger service
only exception being the F40, which is GP40 with HEP in a different box with a notch.
Ask EMD where their customer support is for LIRR DE/DM or the MPI Dildo's , why do some railroads already repower those ????
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Re: MARC HHP-8

Postby dowlingm » Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:49 pm

The GO repowering is, in my view, more about appeasing people who cannot be appeased (those wanting day 1 electrification of the Pearson Airport Link), and this venture is already on its second choice of power plant (2xQSK60 rather than initially announced 1xQSK95). But perhaps another situation was in mind?
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Re: MARC HHP-8

Postby dt_rt40 » Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:27 pm

So, wait a sec. Is the MARC PENN electrics retirement officially official? Did they have a news release saying that?
Well, thank goodness I'll probably be a career situation where I have to ride them less and less. I haven't had to ride regularly since last spring as it is.

If it is the case, that's so pathetic the word pathetic doesn't even do it justice. I'd complain, but I've complained to MARC about something before and gotten zilch in terms of a substantive response, so why bother. I find Maryland has good characterstics and bad characteristics, but agency responsiveness if not one of them. If you call EZpass Delaware or EZpass PA about an issue, your call is answered almost immediately by someone who actually sounds like they graduated from secondary school and are fully competent in customer service. MD EZpass? You wait 20 minutes on hold to speak to someone who manages to sound uniquely spaced out and really angry at the same time. And who stonewalls you about absolutely everything. In some municipalities I could complain to my congress critter, but in this area I'm sure mine is a tea party hayseed who thinks public transportation is communism incarnate anyhow, so she (I think) is unlikely to give a damn about the commuter rail agency behaving like this is a 3rd world country.
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Re: MARC HHP-8

Postby r40slant » Sun Mar 16, 2014 12:21 pm

why is it pathectic???? How is it behaving like a 3rd world railroad? especially since they advanced themselves by having weekend penn line service. From a standpoint of maintenance it makes sense to have one fleet. especially because eventually Amtrak will lose the contract and bombardier will be responcible for all fleet upkeep. The electrics are living on borrowed time.
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Re: MARC HHP-8

Postby dt_rt40 » Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:50 pm

I challenge you to find another industrialized nation that has abandoned electric propulsion for a busy commuter line with perfectly good catenary*. Mind you in most of the first world, all but the most rural lines run electric whether they have a commuter service or not.

It's easier to have one fleet? Well, actually, it's easier to have 0 fleets and make everyone drive. Public services aren't about making things easy for them. Somehow they've maintained electric locomotives for 20+ years - they just can't manage anymore? What next? "The bathrooms are just too much to deal with, sorry, you'll have to hold it in". Won't Amtrak have maintenance workers who are very familiar with the HHP-8 & AEM-7, who in theory should be "out of work" with the trouble free ACS-64s taking over? DON'T THEY NEED JOBS?

If Bombardier wants the contract to operate so badly, that's all the more reason to save the stupid things from the scrap heap. They can offer that in return for the contract. If they have 20+ left over from Amtrak, they should certainly be able to keep 6 operating for a few years.

* - maybe perfectly serviceable is more correct
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