Smart Technology to Collect Fares

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Smart Technology to Collect Fares

Postby LongIslandTool » Fri Apr 15, 2011 7:41 pm

Here's a piece from Newsday, touting some fare collection advances:

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/tran ... -1.2817278

Take it all with a grain of salt. The is the first part of an automated system. The technology will be tested with trainmen scanning tickets and selling credit card fares using a handheld device.

It it works, watch for gate collection the the start of phasing out on board fare collection.
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Re: Smart Technology to Collect Fares

Postby wilsonpooch » Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:25 pm

They finally are getting around to that? They were going to do that 10 years ago.
One thing i dont understand, is, if it works it will be a convienience for Passengers on the trains to use credit cards.
Why would they take a convienience away from the passengers if it works?
Makes no sense.
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Re: Smart Technology to Collect Fares

Postby eon2won1 » Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:17 pm

LongIslandTool wrote:Here's a piece from Newsday, touting some fare collection advances:

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/tran ... -1.2817278

Take it all with a grain of salt. The is the first part of an automated system. The technology will be tested with trainmen scanning tickets and selling credit card fares using a handheld device.

It it works, watch for gate collection the the start of phasing out on board fare collection.


I am not a subscriber so I couldn't read the article. I don't understand the transition though.
If the technology exists and has been successful then why wouldn't they just go to straight to the automated plan?
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Re: Smart Technology to Collect Fares

Postby railfan365 » Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:35 pm

When I mentioned something like this in another thread, someone wrote in that the stations are too open for something like this to work. I think that it can - but I am wondering - exactly where in a station would someone have to buy a ticket for going further in?
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Re: Smart Technology to Collect Fares

Postby wilsonpooch » Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:03 pm

if you are talking turnstyles, which is a different matter, they would work at most elevated stations.
At most ground level stations they would not work.
I remember when they tried turnstyles at Kew Gardens and forrest hills and the trains geting slow orders because of so many people on or about the tracks trying to evade the fare.
Can you imagine at stations with crossings? lolol. The railroad this year will start testing handheld machines that conductors can use to accept payment by credit and debit cards.
Has nothing to do with turnstyles.
If it works its better for the crews, the public would rather be able to purchase on the trains then deal with lines at ticket windows and machines.
Put yourself in the publics place.
Get on the train, sit down relax, no lines, slide your debit card through the Conductors device, get a printed recipt and sip your coffee.
Read about it here..you will see in this article there are no plans to eliminate tickets being collected on the trains.
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/L ... sage/33633
here is an excerpt from the above article...

The railroad this year will start testing handheld machines that conductors can
use to accept payment by credit and debit cards to reduce time-consuming cash
transactions and enable them to move through the train more quickly, LIRR
president Helena Williams said Wednesday.

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority already is testing "smart card"
technology in some New York City subway stations. Similar technology could be
implemented on the commuter railroads in about five years, MTA officials said.

By 2020, conductors might simply walk through trains and scan the chips in
riders' smart phones, automatically billing them, similar to the way drivers pay
E-ZPass tolls, Williams said.

so let not your hearts be troubled by the pot stirrers, there are no plans to stop collecting on the trains
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Re: Smart Technology to Collect Fares

Postby SlackControl » Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:48 pm

With on board electronic fare collection, would there still be an onboard penalty added to the fare?
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Re: Smart Technology to Collect Fares

Postby Slippy » Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:01 pm

I can see it now..... customers arguing with train personnel that they just used their maxed out Capital One card at Walmart but their handheld says declined!!! What a travesty I say. Are they going to be developed by the same company that made those machines for Metro North? I want stock in whichever company is making these machines for the LIRR.
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Re: Smart Technology to Collect Fares

Postby Sir Ray » Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:01 am

wilsonpooch wrote:if you are talking turnstyles, which is a different matter, they would work at most elevated stations.
At most ground level stations they would not work.
I remember when they tried turnstyles at Kew Gardens and forrest hills and the trains geting slow orders because of so many people on or about the tracks trying to evade the fare.
Can you imagine at stations with crossings? lolol. The railroad this year will start testing handheld machines that conductors can use to accept payment by credit and debit cards.
Has nothing to do with turnstyles.

Tool has been convinced for a while that the LIRR is going w/ turnstiles at stations, as evidenced in this thread from January of this year. Indeed
Tool wrote:and you'll see the beginnings of automated fare collection in some stations later this year
- when further asked to define automated fare collection:
Tool wrote:Gated paid and unpaid areas like the subway. No on-board collection
. Well, at least he does stick to his convictions, unlike me!
OTOH, I'm not convinced that the LIRR won't just go with a POP (Proof of Payment) system like the HBLRT/Newark Subways have (you could make a weak case that the LIRR kind of has that now - but it would be a very weak case), and that too was discussed in that previous thread.
At any rate, we have an (proposed) schedule of when Smart Cart on-board payment testing will begin.

Hmm
Newsday-Every-Day! wrote:By 2020, conductors might simply walk through trains and scan the chips in riders' smart phones, automatically billing them, similar to the way drivers pay E-ZPass tolls
So will riders who don't want to pay by smart-phone have to wrap their phones in those insulating Plastic bags like the ones that come w/ E-ZPass transponders?
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Re: Smart Technology to Collect Fares

Postby ADL6009 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 2:26 am

despite all the rumors about this happening or that happening no one at the MTA / LIRR really knows what will happen until AFTER it happens. lol.
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Re: Smart Technology to Collect Fares

Postby davelirrider » Sun Apr 17, 2011 3:01 am

wilsonpooch wrote:If it works its better for the crews, the public would rather be able to purchase on the trains then deal with lines at ticket windows and machines.
Put yourself in the publics place.
Get on the train, sit down relax, no lines, slide your debit card through the Conductors device, get a printed recipt and sip your coffee.
Read about it here..you will see in this article there are no plans to eliminate tickets being collected on the trains.
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/L ... sage/33633
here is an excerpt from the above article


Only one thing - I can GUARANTEE that the on-board fare penalty will still apply to persons buying tickets on board. Why? Because otherwise the same conductors who can't make it through the train to punch tickets, will definitely not be able to make it through the train if they're selling everyone tickets on-board the train from their electronic device. Could you imagine??? No one would ever buy a ticket from a window or machine if the price was the same to just catch the train and buy it once moving.
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Re: Smart Technology to Collect Fares

Postby Marge s » Sun Apr 17, 2011 10:31 am

I can here it now : "Yo man my battery be dead" ,"YO send one of tha bills to my to my baby mama phone"
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Re: Smart Technology to Collect Fares

Postby Head-end View » Sun Apr 17, 2011 7:05 pm

Let me get this straight...............LIRR is about to start testing similar hand-held devices to what is already in use by conductors on Metro-North? A conductor friend of mine was using that last summer and told me it has to be charged every day, using a charger in the crew room at Grand Central.
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Re: Smart Technology to Collect Fares

Postby LongIslandTool » Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:24 pm

If these tests are successful, all fare collection will be moved to platform gating.

The savings will be immense, and public perception of the "inefficiencies of fare collection" is a tremendous liability to the Chairman and the Agency.

Like it or not, Wilson, it's not 2005 (or 1905 for that matter) anymore.
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Re: Smart Technology to Collect Fares

Postby num1hendrickfan » Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:52 pm

LongIslandTool wrote:If these tests are successful, all fare collection will be moved to platform gating.

The savings will be immense, and public perception of the "inefficiencies of fare collection" is a tremendous liability to the Chairman and the Agency.

Like it or not, Wilson, it's not 2005 (or 1905 for that matter) anymore.


The problem with gated fare collection is that some platforms are public thoroughfares, and as such utilized by pedestrians wishing to cross the tracks in a safe and efficient manner ( such is the case at Mineola ). Now if everyone is riding the train that works out great, unfortunately that isn't the case. A sizable number of patients and medical staff ( who don't utilize the LIRR ) cross the tracks at Mineola via the Intermodal bridge, which is part of the rail station. Charging them a fare for a train they aren't riding is outright illegal. Surely there must be a solution that accounts for this, as this has all the makings of a drawn out legal battle all over it ( of which the railroad will not win ).

Surely there must be a solution where such a system is instead installed on the train itself. Something that is far more easier, and less taxing on both the railroad and public.
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Re: Smart Technology to Collect Fares

Postby Head-end View » Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:00 pm

Yeah really, as I've suggested before, a project to restrict access to station platforms would be both complicated (as the above poster said) and hugely expensive and labor intensive to build. Reminds me of when they hastily built all the high platforms in electric territory for the M-1's circa 1969. Considering that many platforms have multiple stairwells, and access points, I just can't envision them doing this. At the very least it would involve lots of 6-foot high metal-fencing, kind of like on the PATH platform at Newark Penn Station.
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