Grumman, Republic, and North Fork Station Closures

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Grumman, Republic, and North Fork Station Closures

Postby dlandw » Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:08 pm

Hello all,

I've never bothered learning how to edit Wikipedia pages, but here's one that drives me nuts:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_%28LIRR_station%29

Grumman did _not_ close in the 1970s! When I was reverse commuting to Republic in 1984, Grumman was still served by the outbound train I rode every morning (I believe the scheduled time for the Grumman stop was either 7:01 or 7:10 a.m.). I believe it was served by two westbound trains in the late afternoon, at the end of first shift.

Like the Lower Montauk stations, Grumman did not have a "platform" per se, just an area of what appeared to be cinders on the south side of the tracks. However, the "platform" was lighted (incandescent bulbs mounted on white wooden posts), and it had at least one GRUMMAN station sign (small white pre-MTA sign with all-caps lettering).

I've previously seen reports that Republic closed sometime in the 1970s also, but at least the Wikipedia page is correct on this one, it lasted until electric service to Ronkonkoma was inaugurated. In my opinion, closing Republic was a bad move. In 1984, it had respectable reverse commute ridership, not only foot traffic to nearby businesses, but also a fair number (like myself) transferring to the S-1 bus on Route 110.

I'm not certain the correct closure date is shown on the Wikipedia page for Calverton (1958). Calverton was still shown on the zone map on purchase-on-board tickets until the early 1980s, even though I know the stop had been discontinued by that time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calverton_ ... station%29

Regarding the North Fork stations, I also believe that the closure dates shown on the Wikipedia pages for several of them are incorrect. I lost my vintage timetable collection, but I believe that Jamesport and Cutchogue stations lasted well into the 1980s, even though (if I recall correctly) Jamesport only had one outbound train stopping. (Kinda makes a return trip difficult, similar to Jersey Ave. on NJT). Laurel, Aquebogue, and Peconic were long closed by this time.

Does anyone know the correct closure dates for Calverton, Jamesport and Cutchogue?

Cheers,
Al "dlandw"
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Re: Grumman, Republic, and North Fork Station Closures

Postby nyandw » Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:28 pm

Cutchogue: CLOSED: 1958, RAZED 6/62, DISCONTINUED AS STATION STOP.
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Re: Grumman, Republic, and North Fork Station Closures

Postby wilsonpooch » Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:28 am

Calverton was a passenger stop untill at least the late 70's. I hired on in 1973 and qualified as Conductor in 1978.
I suppose the station building was gone, but when I qualified in june 1978, the station stops east of KO were Holtsville, medford yaphank, calverton, riverhead, jamesport, mattituck cutchogue southold and greenport.
I have looked on line and seen wrong dates.
I personally worked trains in the 70's that stopped at all those stations.
Those names are burned into my memory having to qualify .
Lets not forget pineaire, which made it until the electrification.
I dont think they were closed until the 80's, dont know the exact dates.
Grumman did indeed survive untill the 80's, as did republic. Im sure somebody has vintage timetables or branch timetables from the 70's and 80's showing these stations were still in operation as passenger stops.
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Re: Grumman, Republic, and North Fork Station Closures

Postby SwingMan » Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:14 pm

Those stations probably would have survived if:

They weren't so close to other stations
High-level platforms aren't as cheap then putting some rocks down with a sign and lights
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Re: Grumman, Republic, and North Fork Station Closures

Postby RRJS3 » Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:40 pm

In addition to avoiding the cost of new high level platforms and other associated upgrades, fewer stops means faster service. The number of stations after Hicksville out to KO was reduced from 11 to 8. In theory, more distance between stations allows for greater speed. The current Deer Park station has far more parking capacity than the old DK station and Pineaire combined, so that particular move was also sensible in that regard.

Now...if only it were double tracked. ;)
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Re: Grumman, Republic, and North Fork Station Closures

Postby dlandw » Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:56 pm

Hello all,

Thanks to wilsonpooch for setting the record straight, I knew I was right on Calverton, Jamesport and Cutchogue lasting much later than has been reported elsewhere. Quoting (somewhat liberally) from Mark Twain, "Reports of their demise have been greatly exaggerated."

Now, a few others...

Elmhurst: I've seen reports of its disappearance as early as the late 60s. I'm pretty sure it was around much later, perhaps as late as 1982.

Bayport and Blue Point: Definitely 1980. I remember the closure announcement. Rather than stating that the stations would be closing permanently, it stated that they were closing "forever." How dramatic!

Springfield Gardens: Never quite understood why it was considered necessary to close this one, circa 1982 if I recall correctly. Yes, it was lightly used, but so are other nearby stations that remain open.

Cheers,
Al "dlandw"
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Re: Grumman, Republic, and North Fork Station Closures

Postby SwingMan » Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:06 pm

A few years ago (Up until 2007-2008), I frequently went to Rosyln station. I'm not sure if it is still there, but they had a map from 1979 up. Just the sheer amount of changes to today's MTA is pretty amazing.
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Re: Grumman, Republic, and North Fork Station Closures

Postby mirrodie » Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:40 am

About Republic.

As you posted in another thread, dlandw, I think I was standing at the car wash next to the diner you speak of on Rte 110 last weekend. I was looking at the RR overpass that takes the tracks across rte 110, viewing north.

On the east side of the trestle, looking at it from a point south, there are stairs from rte 110 road that lead up tothe tracks. And there are gates preventing people from climbing up there.

Is that where old Republic station was, right at the intersection of hte trestle and rte 110?

Any photos of that old station?
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Re: Grumman, Republic, and North Fork Station Closures

Postby wilsonpooch » Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:42 am

Yes, Bayport and blue point were 1980. Springfield Gardens looked identical to the Auburndale station, before it was remodled.

Next time you can look out the head end of a rare m-3, its easy to see where springfield gardens was.
East of St albans on the montauk, there comes a spot where the tracks seperate for no apparent reason.
( I think its at springfield blvd)
The reason why they seperate is because there was an island platform between them, the old station.
Only photo I could find was at arrts-arrchives.com, well after it was closed, but before they tore it down.
Image
Elmhurst had to be the middle 80's at the earliest.
I remember a train hitting two teens at elmhurst in the 80's, both were killed. I was upset when I got home, and hugged my daughter, who was a toddler at the time.
My daughter was born in 82, so elmhurst had to be around as late as 85.
For some reason I seem to remember it being closed on a New years day, ll guess 85.
This from flickr, elmhurst.. looking east, maybe the 60's
Image
And yes republic was where that staircase is on 110.. the photo in the next post was taken from the overpass above 110 looking east.
Last edited by wilsonpooch on Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Grumman, Republic, and North Fork Station Closures

Postby RRJS3 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:55 am

Republic Station, also from Arrt's Archives.

Image
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Re: Grumman, Republic, and North Fork Station Closures

Postby wilsonpooch » Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:53 am

one other note, its not always about stations being close together as we see on the babylon line.. its about parking.
Some of those stations are right on top of one another, but they remain in service because of the large parking lots.
The railroad runs expresses during the rush hours that skip stations, one train may make Wantagh, Bellmore, Merrick, then run express to Jamaica or NY, the next may make Freeport Baldwin, and Rockville Centre. This splits up the passenger loads.
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Re: Grumman, Republic, and North Fork Station Closures

Postby Teutobergerwald » Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:56 am

The picture of Republic is interesting. Did riders for eastbound trains have to walk across the spur to get further down the platform after coming upstairs from Rte. 110? It looks that way from the picture. Also, that spur. I assume it was snipped during the electrification? Republic had lost the contract competition for a trainer aircraft in the mid-'80's, and the A-10 Thunderbolt project was completed, so that was it for Republic Aviation and its DoD work. Did that spur serve a number of different buildings within the Republic complex, like the Grumman spur in Calverton, or did it go to just one building? How often was Republic switched by LIRR freight trains? Thanks.
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Re: Grumman, Republic, and North Fork Station Closures

Postby REM3Night » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:32 pm

The Northrop Grumman Model RR Club has the poster that announced the closing of the Grumman Station. "Effective December 2, trains will no longer stop at the Grumman Station. The last scheduled service to Grumman will be on Friday, November 29." "Remove (poster) 12/27/85"
Customers were directed to use Bethpage or Hicksville. Grumman ran a shuttle van to the Bethpage Station for employees.
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Re: Grumman, Republic, and North Fork Station Closures

Postby R36 Combine Coach » Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:26 pm

Elmhurst closed in 1985 (1/1/85). An IND subway station at Elmhurst Avenue was just underneath.
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Re: Grumman, Republic, and North Fork Station Closures

Postby dlandw » Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:56 pm

Hello all,
OK, so who's registered with Wikipedia, and able to correct the closure dates for all of these stations?

Cheers,
Al "dlandw"
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