While we were away......

Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.

Moderator: Liquidcamphor

Yeah, its me

Postby Gruntled » Sat Mar 13, 2004 1:36 am

Jay, but what about the girl unions?!

That's interesting about the derail "not working as intended."

Is it true there was trackwork going on at the time, either Glennon or NYA guys (in addition to the welders)? Was the track under WMX's control, if that still even goes on?
Gruntled
 

Postby bjofnd1 » Sat Mar 13, 2004 2:25 am

Well I am too lazy to write this all over again so here is my 2 cents worth,
From some of my first hand experiences from "Learn from me! Don’t let this happen to you file"


http://64.78.30.219/forums/viewtopic.php?t=209
bjofnd1
 

Crossing Gates

Postby roee » Sat Mar 13, 2004 9:53 am

About the crossing gates. I know this always get comunity people in an uproar and they go off about why aren't there gates there and pretty much blame the big bad railroad for worrying too much about profits and not enough about saftey. But what these people never seem to know is it's the states job to decide where and what crossing devices are placed, and then the state pays for it (though much of the money of federal).
roee
 
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Postby Knife-Switch » Sat Mar 13, 2004 10:25 am

XXX
Last edited by Knife-Switch on Tue Mar 16, 2004 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Knife-Switch
 

Postby RRChef » Sat Mar 13, 2004 11:38 am

As I said in my previous post, there were at one time gates at all the crossings along the Bushwick. However, I don't believe they were automatic. I seem to recall having seen a crew activate the Metropolitan Ave crossing from a box on the north side of the crossing.

For those of you who are unfamilar with this area, this is an extremely busy industrial area. Lots of heavy dump trucks, garbage trucks, tractor trailers etc use these crossings at all hours. What I don't understand is why the gates were removed and by who? I realize the line was under used for years, but that doesn't justify removing gates in a high traffic area. Anyone care to comment?
RRChef
 
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Location: Long Island, New York

Postby bingdude » Sat Mar 13, 2004 12:40 pm

Jay is right about one thing: We shouldn't jump to conclusions.


NTSB & all will sort it out.

As a friend in the MidWest said when I told him about this:
"Short cuts will get you every time."
bingdude
 
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Location: Hastings on Hudson NY

Postby Guest » Sun Mar 14, 2004 1:03 am

the crew on that train had more than 25 yrs experience each LONG before NYAR took over freight operations these guys were humping cars all over the ROW . The split derail was lined for the branch instead of the dirt pit because parts were ordered 6 months ago????
The clamp on derail was mounted wrong thus just a speed bump to the loco
As for NYA taking over, they are lucky to have insurance in the past year they have had their own derailments in Fresh Pond Yard, wedged a boxcar under the montauk viaduct near Hillside and taken out the signal bridge in JS inerlocking!!!!!
Who should take over who???
as for switching moves emegency brakes are enough on a loco
the engine was not being "layed up" and therefore relieved of hand brakes
If the derails were being properly maintained no one would have gotten hurt
Guest
 

Re: Maspeth

Postby Guest » Sun Mar 14, 2004 1:16 am

Joanna wrote:Yo, Bo-vawn is RIGHT!!

We LIRR trainmen and traingirls aren't hardly traind on those big deesel locomotives, and I dont think the engineers are too much neither.

There is an expert deesel railroad on LI and thats NYAR. They should pass a law tomorrow that sez that noone can run a deezel locomotive on LI except a certified NYAR engineer!

Then I wouldnt have to be getting dirty and all on those deezel trains and the people would be safe. Only a freight railroad nows how to run deezels, and the LIRR is more like the transit authority..

Joanna I truely hope you are not employeed in the same craft as myself
you are uneducated and illiterate what the hell is a deezel train??
Guest
 

Postby Gruntled » Sun Mar 14, 2004 1:30 am

Hey "guest," I hate to pointout the obvious, but it looks to me like bo-vaun and joanna are not serious posters, just someone trying to stir sh** up...

Derail info you added is also interesting. As they say it usually takes at least 2 screw-ups to cause a disaster... looks like that applies here too.
Gruntled
 

Postby Gruntled » Sun Mar 14, 2004 2:05 am

SORRY FOR THE CAPS, ITS JUST TO SEPARATE MY WORDS FROM THE PREVIOUS POST I'M QUOTING

[as for switching moves emegency brakes are enough on a loco (APPARENTLY NOT, IN THIS CASE)

the engine was not being "layed up" and therefore relieved of hand brakes
LIRR THEM 59, 21a8: LOCOMOTIVE UNATTENDED: "APPLY HANDBRAKE. DEPENDENCE MUST NEVER BE PLACED ON AIR BRAKES TO HOLD EQUIPMENT LEFT STANDING UNATTENDED." (NO MENTION OF EXCEPTIONS FOR SWITCHING)

If the derails were being properly maintained no one would have gotten hurt[/quote] ALSO TRUE.

OTHER QUESTIONS: DID THE WELDERS NEED/HAVE BLUE FLAG PROTECTION? WERE ROADWAY WORKERS ON THE BRANCH AS RUMORED? IF SO, WERE THEY ADEQUATELY PROTECTED? (THIER LOCK ON A DERAIL OR SWITCH PROTECTING THEM FROM MOVEMENT)

ALSO, WHAT LED THE WELDERS TO BELIEVE IT WAS SAFE TO PARK THE TRUCK ON THE TRACKS?
Gruntled
 

Postby Guest » Sun Mar 14, 2004 2:48 am

Guest, take it easy. Jay, who works for NYAR has not said anything at all derogatory about LIRR employees. So please refrain from "knocking" NYAR. It is an affront to him and he has said nothing bad at all.

Their is talk that a NYAR employee who was wearing a BLE cap, was interviewed on TV by the news and supposedly in his "expert" opinion, the "LIRR crew didn't know what they were doing". Now if that's true, well then he's a moron and doesn't know what he was talking about. I certainly hope this isn't true, because we all know about "those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.."
Guest
 

Postby bjofnd1 » Sun Mar 14, 2004 7:52 am

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well what the hell happened? It sounds to me somebody forget to tie a binder on the little bugger so she rolled away. I have read the crew’s story on the UTU’s web site and they said the crew heard the engine dynamite when they cut away from the power. Well then it looks like the hogger and the conductor are going to hang for this one. Because at the start of there shift, the hogger should have done a quick pre-strip inspection. The only way a locomotive can roll away like that after it dynamites is 1 way, and 2 things must happen, 1. No one ties the handbrake and 2. The trucks were cut out. Because If the crew heard the engine go in the big hole, like they stated, the brake pipe vented to the atmosphere, but the air from the emergency reservoir never made it to the brake cylinders. Well you could say there was a major leak in the emergency reservoir, but the engineer would have know that because his airflow would have been trough the roof when he was charging the system or through the coarse of business if it happen after his pre-trip inspection. But the bottom line here is no mater what railroad you work for all unattended equipment must be tied down with sufficient number of handbrakes. Air must never be relied on to hold unattended equipment, no mater how long you plan on it sitting there. Obviously no one was left watching the open barn door, so regardless of how long they planned on leaving it there; somebody’s going to be doing some time. But I tell you what I think happened.

They crew cut away, didn’t feel like cranking the hell out of an EMD hand brake, it takes something like 23 pumps, and hell your coming back anyway. They closed the angle cocks on the locomotive and what ever it was tied onto. The paper said it was 2 other locomotives, but it really doesn’t mater if it was a locomotive or freight cars. But I believe it was freight cars most likely flats with M-1’s because I see no reason to close all the Main reservoir, Independent, and Actuating valves on both units just to come back and reconnect the glad-hands and play with the valves again. The bottom line is the independent was in the trail position and the automatic was in handle off, and if they didn’t want to dynamite the engine, because for whatever reason it always seems that when a locomotive goes in the big hole it never wants to reset until you tried for like fifty times and it always happens when your going for that big quit. Well after the crew cut away, someone must have went up to the engine to through on the independent but forgot to turn the MU-2A valve from” trail” to “lead-dead”. And there you have it, you think the brakes are set and their not. Because how many time has someone said to themselves,” I am not tying that binder, I’ll be back in 10 minuets the air will hold her. Well maybe someone who knows can answer this. I screwed up so many times running for quits, I pretty much can figure out what went wrong if I know the scenario. Not proud, just pretty thick headed. I first thought it was an NYA crew when I read the column, but they went out of their way to say it was a LIRR crew. And I know any Freight guy would know the sound of an Independent set cut in or out. When they’re cut out and you try to apply it, the Indy still makes a sound but it kind of flops over to the set position. Rather it does have some resistance when there cut in and applied. Well lets have the facts boys, and I’ll put my destructive reputation on the line to figure out what went wrong.
bjofnd1
 

Postby bjofnd1 » Sun Mar 14, 2004 7:54 am

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Well I just thought of a second scenario from my bag of “Don’t let this happen to YOU” files. The LIRR crew brought the train into the yard; they had power on both ends of their train, the 160 were leading the westbound train into Fresh Pond. The engineer was going to leave the 160 power behind, get on the units on the east end of the train, cut away, and pull east with the cars. Then yard the cars and come back light power against the 160. And when they came back the 160 was gone. Now every engineer knows if you put the Automatic in “Handle Off” position and apply the independent and then turn the MU-2A valve from “Lead-Dead” to “Trail” you won’t have to screw with that engine when you tie back on and run from another unit. For those who don’t know, when you apply this little trick the air is bottled on the locomotive brake cylinders and you can move the Independent to release, and the air stays in the brake cylinders just like the Independent was applied. It works like a charm when changing ends, instead off securing the units manually like the rulebook says. Hell why am I going to crank the hell out of a handbrake if I am just going to kick it off 10 seconds later? So when you come back against the power you left behind and tie on and MU all the connections from the ground you don’t have to climb back in the power to screw with the engine. Now not like doing it by the rules is tough, but hey, the pride of every true railroader is efficiency because it equals a better quit. Well for what ever reason the brakes never applied, trucks could have been cut out, and when the train cut away the switchman went with the train, riding on the hind car, facing the direction of travel which was east, and that was enough for the unit to start rolling downhill west towards rat hole central.
bjofnd1
 

Postby Knife-Switch » Sun Mar 14, 2004 9:16 am

First of all let's not go throwing reporters words into BLE Brother's mouths. We all know that anyone who would claim to be an expert is probably the most dangerous guy around.

If the Brother wearing the hat was the current NYAR employee I think it was I would bet anything you want that he did not claim to be an expert.

It has however been rumored that a former NYAR employee, who has been likened to Walter Mitty on a Bender, made his appearence in front of the cameras. And that this person, when speaking coherently talks enough BS to grow 20lb tomatoes. I understand that he was decked out in all sorts of RR paraphernalia and might have even claimed to be a CSX ENGR.


It was a very bad case of wrong place wrong time.


For a look at the conditions in daylight (from a few years ago):

http://www.oldnyc.com/bushwick/contents/bushwick.html
Last edited by Knife-Switch on Tue Mar 16, 2004 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Knife-Switch
 

Postby Guest » Sun Mar 14, 2004 1:23 pm

I SAY IT'S MARTHA STEWARTS FAULT. SHE LEFT THE HANDBRAKE OFF THE ENGINE. MAYBE THE CREW WAS UNDER AN ALIEN SPELL.
Guest
 

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