LIRR P54D Cars Up For Sale

Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.

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LIRR P54D Cars Up For Sale

Postby UN Block » Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:16 pm

Gents (and Ladies???),

Y'all should be aware that five ex-LIRR P54D class coaches are going to be auctioned off to the highest bidder on October 10 in Kane and Marienville Pennsylvania, home of the former Knox & Kane RR (of Kinzua Viaduct fame). The auctioneer's website is http://www.petersonauction.com. There are images of the cars as well as details for the auction. Obviously, us mere citizens probably will not go out there to bid on them but the RR Museum of LI might be interested. Jay??? Others????

The P54Ds have apparently kept their LIRR numbers over the years and these specimens had all been sold to the Steamtown Foundation in Bellows Falls VT in 1974. Does anybody out there know WHEN Steamtown sold them to the Knox & Kane? Did they make the move from VT to Scranton PA first? Were there intermediate owners in between these two operations? Have any of you other equipment mavens been able to keep up with these cars (and others) over the years?

The cars in question are 7002, 7031, 7099, 7109 and 7433.

Just so you should know!
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Re: LIRR P54D Cars Up For Sale

Postby jayrmli » Sat Sep 27, 2008 11:04 pm

I was wondering what the fate would be for those cars once the railroad ceased operations. I was up there about 3 years ago to ride the line specifically to check out the ex-LIRR pings. Little did I know that it was one of the last passenger runs you could take, as tourist operations closed for the season shortly thereafter, and the decision was not to start up again. The enginehouse fire was certainly the final blow to any restart of the line.

I would have to say out of any remaining ping pong coach, the ones being auctioned off are probably the best that still exist anywhere. They are complete, and aside from the one converted to a cafe car, are virtually unmodified from their LIRR days. The pictures of the interiors of the cars can attest to their condition.

That being said, the effort to get them back to Long Island would be very costly. They are non-interchangeble, and would most likely have to be moved by truck.

Again, the question would have to be raised as is raised any time new equipment can be acquired, is where on earth to put it.

Jay
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Re: LIRR P54D Cars Up For Sale

Postby frankie » Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:38 am

It sure would be nice if one could be used at the rest stop along the eastbound lanes of the LIE to replace the one that was there a few years ago.
Mineola, NY is my real home, however I live 60 miles from Mineola, MO. No LIRR here!
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Re: LIRR P54D Cars Up For Sale

Postby workextra » Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:44 am

It would be something to see these cars home but I highly doubt it.
since they have to be trucked could they be stored at Calverton on that siding to the air base? There is accessible track there.
(at least they are home.) I will not speculate nor say my position because I highly doubt home rails is in the future unless it's on the Gershow express. :(

Does the LIRR still have any of them M7 delivery flats around? if the pings can be tide down to them then shipping by rail is not out of the question? besides the LI museums the MTA transit museum would do well with at least one Ping.
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Re: LIRR P54D Cars Up For Sale

Postby RetiredLIRRConductor » Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:03 am

The interiors do look good.
Those type seats were used in the old Trolly Barn in Speonk, in the booths.
Worked the Pings my first day on the trains, on a collectors job.

Image
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Re: LIRR P54D Cars Up For Sale

Postby workextra » Sun Sep 28, 2008 9:46 pm

That car is so complete that I would be a real treat for it to run on a special train for the 175th anniversary. Even if it's not in LIRR paint, just the whole idea of riding on a Ping, and the memories it will bring for many older folks out there and the experience it will have for the younger folks. I really hope all LI historical groups including the transit museum thinks hard on this.
we have lost too much, way too much.
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Re: LIRR P54D Cars Up For Sale

Postby midwest fred » Tue Sep 30, 2008 7:15 pm

If two or three of these cars were "saved" by a tourist operation some place, what is the likelihood that the LIRR groups would patronize the line in order to see them restored in LIRR colors, and operating? Assuming they would be someplace near Long Island (not on it). Would the NRHS groups and museums come out and ride them? Or charted for LIRR specific events at the RR (like a bus trip)?

Fred.
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Re: LIRR P54D Cars Up For Sale

Postby frankie » Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:04 pm

Too bad there's not a way to hitch up a ping as a trailer to the rear of a regular train on random runs and let some of the commuters experience a bit of history - kinda similar to what the NYCTA does with it's historic fleet of buses that uses them on special occasions on regular routes.
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Re: LIRR P54D Cars Up For Sale

Postby jayrmli » Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:29 pm

If two or three of these cars were "saved" by a tourist operation some place, what is the likelihood that the LIRR groups would patronize the line in order to see them restored in LIRR colors, and operating? Assuming they would be someplace near Long Island (not on it). Would the NRHS groups and museums come out and ride them? Or charted for LIRR specific events at the RR (like a bus trip)?


A similar thing was tried by LIST-NRHS back in the 1970's when a lot of the old equipment was retired. A lot of equipment went to places like Black River & Western and many volunteers traveled there on weekends to work on it. As time went by, manpower and interest dwindled.

With the high cost of gasoline today and many cutting back on their driving, I don't know how much effort would be expended by Long Island railfans to do such a thing. Remember too that once you leave Long Island it isn't just gas but lots of tolls as well.

The other problem with those cars moving anywhere is the extreme cost. As I said, they are non-interchangeable and will be costly to move anywhere.

Jay
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Re: LIRR P54D Cars Up For Sale

Postby Otto Vondrak » Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:00 am

The interior may be complete, but you also have to look at things like frame rot, roof condition, the stability of the frame, and other items invisible to the naked eye. You're talking a lot of money to truck those things out of Pennsylvania, then a lot of money to recondition them so they can be used to haul passengers again.
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Re: LIRR P54D Cars Up For Sale

Postby jayrmli » Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:23 pm

The interior may be complete, but you also have to look at things like frame rot, roof condition, the stability of the frame, and other items invisible to the naked eye. You're talking a lot of money to truck those things out of Pennsylvania, then a lot of money to recondition them so they can be used to haul passengers again.


Otto I looked those cars over pretty good when I was there about 2 years ago. Out of all of the existing pings, these cars can be considered the "jewels."

Hauling passengers might not be that much of a problem, if you were going to continue to run them where they are. What should be the scope in this particular forum, if anything, would be to save one as a museum piece. Again, if you are looking to preserve one of this class, funding for one of these cars would have been money better spent than those that wanted to save that car from the LIE rest area a few years back.

But, then we come back to the same questions that winds up being asked when anything ex-LIRR becomes available:

1) Where are the funds to get it?
2) Where are the funds to restore it?
3) How in the world are you going to get it here?

and maybe the biggest one...

4) Where are you going to put it?

Unfortunately, unless these questions are answered, the ability to preserve anything in the future becomes moot.

Jay
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Re: LIRR P54D Cars Up For Sale

Postby midwest fred » Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:00 pm

Let me re-state my question.

If somebody with the money, time, operation, and ability to move the cars purchased say 2 of them, would the LIRR folks (LIST, RMLI, OBRM etc) come out and ride them once a year as a group event? With the proceeds going towards their preservation and restoration.

Forget all the BS about what the LI folks can/can't do, I know you guys don't have the resources. I am wondering if the groups collectively would support somebody that did have the resources. There would be ZERO work involved on your parts - just show up and ride them !

Since you guys are the experts, let me know your thoughts ASAP.

Fred.
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Re: LIRR P54D Cars Up For Sale

Postby Otto Vondrak » Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:56 pm

>crickets<

I'd come out to Indiana to see a restored LIRR RS-1 pulling restored LIRR coaches, but I'm just one dude. Who's not from LI. ;-)
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Re: LIRR P54D Cars Up For Sale

Postby midwest fred » Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:17 pm

I will tell you when to buy your tickets, that day isn't too far away.

And the racoons still living in the 467, I am certain, are eating all your crickets, by the amount of poo they leave on the main generator belt drive.

Fred.
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Re: LIRR P54D Cars Up For Sale

Postby jayrmli » Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:42 am

Let me re-state my question.

If somebody with the money, time, operation, and ability to move the cars purchased say 2 of them, would the LIRR folks (LIST, RMLI, OBRM etc) come out and ride them once a year as a group event? With the proceeds going towards their preservation and restoration.

Forget all the BS about what the LI folks can/can't do, I know you guys don't have the resources. I am wondering if the groups collectively would support somebody that did have the resources. There would be ZERO work involved on your parts - just show up and ride them !

Since you guys are the experts, let me know your thoughts ASAP.

Fred.


Fred,

Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but my question can be answered by reading my posts.

I traveled from Long Island to Western Pennsylvania just to ride behind those coaches. I don't know if you've ever been up to the old K&K, but trust me, there is absolutely nothing else up there to do! :-D

I was fortunate to get up there when I did, as they closed up shortly after I was there. All i remember is getting up and leaving my hotel at 5:00AM in Altoona to drive up there. It was VERY cold that morning - under 20 degrees in Mid-October! When I got to Marienville and got in the coaches, it was even colder up there than in Altoona. Just my luck to find out the cars had no heat. I thought I was going to freeze to death. The car finally warmed up from the sun around 11:00.

The entire trip lasted about 9 hours - doing about 10 MPH through the Allegheny Forest. I'll have to admit I fell asleep for part of the run, but was glad I did it.

Jay
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