LIRR Diner "Tuscarora Club"

[RRChef]

I was going through my collection of menus and dining car instruction manuals when I realized that not only do I not have one but I also have never seen a menu from the LIRR's only dining car. So I have a few questions and hopefully someone can shed some light here:

Was the dining car a year round service or just seasonal?

Were meals served all day, breakfast, lunch and dinner or was the car just used for dinner?

What was on the menu? Did the menu change seasonally? Were there holiday menus? Was the food regional items or a more continental variety?

Where did the recipes come from? Did the LIRR have a dining car manual?

Were all meals prepared on board or were they prepared in a commissary?

Where was the car serviced? Was in done in Morris Park or did they send it to the PRR's Sunnyside Yard?

I know there are alot of questions there but once I started thinking about it, they just kept coming into my head. This is probably one of the least known aspects of LIRR operations and certainly one that deserves to be discussed.

I just had a wild idea. How about recreating a LIRR menu for a special one time fund raising dinner to benefit the preservation groups on LI? I would be willing to donate my time and talent for such a event. Just need a place to hold it. Any thoughts on this?

[jayrmli]

I don't have it handy, but there was an excellent article on LIRR Parlor Service in the Keystone a few years back. It went into detail about dining car service as well. I don't believe it went into what was on the menu though.

From what I remember reading, the dining service was just a Summer service, as I don't think there would have been sufficient business to support it year-round. I know for a couple of years, the heavyweights were stored at Montauk in the off season, which helped them rot away sooner due to the salt air.

As for the benefit dinner, RMLI has an annual benefit dinner held in the Spring. I believe 35 has also started one, although I'm not sure of the specifics.

Jay

[jhdeasy]

The following is quoted from "The Route of the Weekend Chief", by Mike Boland, published in the Autumn 1995 issue of The Keystone.

1962

"In August 1961, the LIRR purchased Lehigh Valley # 1000, an arch-roof diner with an aluminum kitchen and a charcoal stove. During the late 1961 summer season, it saw brief service with white-coated waiters on train # 28, "The Weekender." The car was later named TUSCARORA CLUB. Dining car service was upgraded for its inauguration during the 1962 season. Service was offered on Fridays on train # 26, "The East Ender." On Sunday evening, it returned to the city with full-course dinners available. At other times, when the car was in service, evening snacks and continental breakfasts were served."

1964

"At the end of the 1964 season, dining car service was discontinued. While it was a clever idea, it was an expensive proposition. McNamara went ahead with it because his able assistant, Willie Wilson, oversaw its operation. Unfortunately, it turned out to be more trouble than it was worth; the railroad was not adequately prepared to operate it. Stocking the car with provisions for two dinner runs a week that began over 100 miles apart (Jamaica and Montauk) proved to be too difficult. Still, it lasted for three seasons and the car was used as a 48 seat lounge after its kitchen was closed."

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Here is some other information on TUSCARORA CLUB which I found in that article:

Diner TUSCARORA CLUB, various heavyweight parlor cars and open platform observation car JAMAICA were used for a New York Chapter NRHS excursion from New York to Montauk and return on Sunday September 30, 1962. The excursion ticket was $12; a buffet dinner was available on TUSCARORA CLUB for an additional $4.

In 1963, leaving Montauk at 6:43 PM on Sunday nights, "The Sundowner" had two or three Fairbanks-Morse H16-44 diesels, eight parlors, a diner and at least six P72 coaches.

In 1964, diner service (presumably on TUSCARORA CLUB) was offered on the following trains:
-- train # 16 "The Advance Cannonball" on Thursday
-- train # 26 "The Weekender" on Friday (first section)
-- train # 4011 "The Sundowner" on Sunday
-- train #3 "The Cannonball" on Monday

The car was deadheaded east to Montauk on Sunday night train # 4020 to position it for its westbound revenue run to Jamaica on train # 3 on Monday morning.

TUSCARORA CLUB was used by the PRR in the consist of an all-parlor car special train from New York to Philadelphia and return for the 1964 Army-Navy football game.

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You will find some more information on TUSCARORA CLUB, including photos, at my LIRR Parlor Cars website:

http://www.mindspring.com/~jhdeasy/lirr

TUSCARORA CLUB as part of the American Flyer Cafe, alongside the CSX mainline in downtown Marietta GA in 1993. Photo/scan by Martin K. O'Toole.

[RRChef]

Thank you for your responses. They help to answer some questions about this service. Does anyone have a LIRR menu? Is there one in RMLI's collection? I am interested in viewing a menu to see if I can recreate it. If anyone can help, please contact me here or by e-mail.

Jay, I know RMLI has an annual benefit dinner. What I was suggesting is a dinner based on the food served by the LIRR if it were possible to recreate.

[Fla East Coast Chris]

Hi RR Chef,
I contacted a retired conductor in Florida or I see him all the time when I go there..
The 2 entrees were Fresh Roast Turkey and Fresh Roast Beef with the trimmings. I hope this helps you out.
Chris

[RRChef]

Chris,
Thanks for that info. So it's roast turkey and roast beef. Not much to recreate. I was hoping for something along the lines of Lobster Thermidor Merchants Limited Style or Pork Scallopines with Reisling sauce from the 20th Century Limited but I'm not too surprised. I'm still interested in seeing a menu if anyone has one.

[LI Loco]

I've enjoyed reading this thread about the LIRR's only diner of the modern era, i.e. my lifetime, and want to especially thank Jack Deasy for once again sharing his knowledge of the LIRR's first-class operations.

Traveling back from the US Open in the setting sun, it occured to me what a wonderful experience it would be to have supper in a dining car coming in from the Hamptons. If such a facilty were available today, the LIRR could generate tremendous publicity by recruiting guest chefs from New York City and Long Island's finest restaurants.

Sadly, lack of resources and imagination make this little more than a dream.

[Fla East Coast Chris]

Hi again RR Chef,
If it was lobster trhey would have to go to Gosmans to catch it.
Or walk up to Dureayeas place to bring it back and cook it on the steam generator!! LOL sorry just a little humor.
Chris

[RRChef]

LI Loco
You're right. It would be enjoyable to have dinner on the train while enjoying the ride back home. But dining operations are very labor intensive with almost no profit. So don't expect the LIRR to run out and purchase a couple used diners from Amtrak.

Years ago while completing my degree in Hotel and Restaurant Management, I designed a dinner train as a project for one of my classes. The train traveled from Riverhead to Greenport through the Wine Region and utilized local products including duck, local produce and wines.
On paper, it could work. However in real life, it's not likely because of the logistical nightmare it would cause for the LIRR.

I like your idea of guest chefs on the train. It could really draw a crowd.

Chris,
we'll call the dish Homard a la C420. I foresee huge demand for it from the Alco fans! :D

[LI Loco]

Perhaps the LIRR is not the right venue, but what about a dinner train operator?

Many tourist lines run dinner trains in the evening. It could work on summer evenings in the North Fork, i.e. Riverhead - Greenport and return. Get some vintage equipment. Hire a caterer. Work out operating and liability issues with LIRR.

[RRChef]

LI Loco
When I wrote that paper it was under the assumption that the main line had been abandoned east of Riverhead. The ficticous company that I created owned the line, it's own engines and employed the train crews. There was no involvement of the LIRR or MTA except to ferry equipment west for repairs if needed.

Under present circumstances, I am not sure if this could ever get off the ground. The line certainly has the capacity for an additional 2 trains a day(lunch and dinner) and I do believe it would be a success in the summer and fall. I had heard a rumor some time ago that one of the winery owners was interested in doing this based on the success of the Napa Valley Wine Train(lots of simularities between the North Fork and Napa) but this was met with stiff opposition by the LIRR. Maybe when the one of the groups here gets it's equipment running a charter trip could be run to see how popular it would be but this is still a long way off.

[CarterB]

The only dinner trains in the close to NYC area I am aware of are the Essex Dinner Train in CT and the Newport Dinner Train in RI. IIRC, both are doing well. I would think a "closer in" to NYC operation might do well. Whether LIRR to North Fork or something on the Susquehanna or other line/s in NJ would be allowed, I have no idea.

[RetiredLIRRConductor]

Who would be brave enough to eat LIRR food???

[Dave Keller]

If you saw the green mold inside the coffee urn in the kitchenette car I mentioned in the other thread about the Tuscarora Club you wouldn't have drunk the coffee, either!

I remember dumping the whole filter out one morning to make coffee and it was never dumped from the previous run, whenever that may have been and it was one mass of green-molded grounds.

As the urn was bolted to the counter, there was no scrubbing it either and all you could do was try to wipe it out with a soapy rag, but, as the coffee had to be made, there was no time to clean, so it was rinsed, the water run out through the spigot and a new batch of coffee was underway.

Yech!

Dave

[Fla East Coast Chris]

Hey LIRR COIND( UNKA BOBBY) Does Penn Gourmet ring a bell?? Or Le Cafe?? LOL!!! Talk to you!!