Atlantic Avenue Brooklyn Terminal

Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.

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Re: LIRR Derailment - Atlantic Terminal track 6

Postby flexliner » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:47 am

good morning Mark
(seems to be around 0200 if you are in EST)

first insomnia and OSA are different animals though i suppose they can coexist.
insomnia is usually treated medically ie melatonin and other sleep aiding meds

surprised that CPAP was not effective but alas there never is 100 percent
mandibular advancement devices are very rarely covered by insurers
they are also quite effective though per literature a bit less than CPAP

the implanted hypoglossal stimulator has been getting good press in the med literature at least lately

i suggest anyone with OSA seek out an ENT who is competent in that aspect of the specalty (not all are)
one can also have a Drug Induced Sleep Endoscopy (see videos on you tube) to determine the exact level of the obstruction of the OSA
and then the doc offers potential surgical options of which there are quite a few.

i suspect as OSA is increasingly recognized maybe maybe things may change a bit
(unions pushing for tests and various treatments to be covered. hey if a treatment exists and is not covered is that discrimination? after all these are not experimental
(as are some chemo etc) rather literature proven...........)
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Re: LIRR Derailment - Atlantic Terminal track 6

Postby flexliner » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:55 am

actually thinking about it i venture that testing for OSA and treating for those in whom it is discovered
(which should allow them to function/work "normally" and without the risks of OSA)
would probably be far far cheaper than blanket decrees that every truck bus and train need two people up front
but then how often does logic actually work in our world?
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Re: LIRR Derailment - Atlantic Terminal track 6

Postby jackintosh11 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:54 am

Don't all the end of line terminals except Penn Station have bumper blocks?
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Re: LIRR Derailment - Atlantic Terminal track 6

Postby RailTrek » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:48 pm

Penn has bumpers at tracks 1&2 for NJT
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Re: LIRR Derailment - Atlantic Terminal track 6

Postby MACTRAXX » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:27 pm

RT and JT:

Penn Station has four stub end tracks: Tracks 1&2 and 3&4 which are primarily used by NJT trains.
These four tracks have bumper blocks on the east end and are not equipped with third rail.

Back to topic: All LIRR tracks that dead end at a station have bumper blocks. Port Washington,
Hempstead, Far Rockaway, Long Beach and West Hempstead along with Atlantic Terminal are
the prime examples of this in electrified territory on the LIRR...

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Re: LIRR Derailment - Atlantic Terminal track 6

Postby MCL1981 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:30 pm

What size and product could be used as a crash attenuator on these bumper blocks. Think like they do on the dump trucks that protect work zones on the highway. Or the ends of median barriers. Designed to absorb crash energy reducing the impact to the human occupants. Something of this sort could absorb some energy, so by the time it hits the solid block, it stops rather than overriding it or derailing? Obviously it would have to be more substantial than a barrel of water. I'm picturing this only for a terminal environment. Not for use in yards and such. The amount of energy involved could make this impractical.

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Re: LIRR Derailment - Atlantic Terminal track 6

Postby litz » Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:51 pm

Those might stop a car or truck fairly well, but there's a big difference between a 4500lb car, a 50,000lb big rig, and a million pounds of train.
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Re: LIRR Derailment - Atlantic Terminal track 6

Postby ExCon90 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:50 pm

They're quite common in parts of Europe (essentially a horizontal erector-set-style steel latticework), but they take up a fair amount of track space, no doubt because of the forces that would be involved--looks like at least one car length. Some places have a pair of massive hydraulic plungers with buffers on the ends corresponding to the buffers on locomotives and cars.
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Re: LIRR Derailment - Atlantic Terminal track 6

Postby DutchRailnut » Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:52 pm

keep in mind a lot of European trains are not only half the weight, but those terminating at bumper blocks are 2 car trains pretty much like trolleys.
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Re: LIRR Derailment - Atlantic Terminal track 6

Postby n2cbo » Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:44 pm

litz wrote:Those might stop a car or truck fairly well, but there's a big difference between a 4500lb car, a 50,000lb big rig, and a million pounds of train.


I can picture in my mind's eye an apparatus that would be able to safely absorb the force, however, it would have to be a very large and expensive piece of machinery. You could have a large hydraulic ram with a complicated set of valves that would allow the fluid to escape at varying rates of flow depending on how much force needed to be absorbed. They are able to stop aircraft on a carrier that are landing with full throttle and afterburners running, but it takes almost a mile of heavy cable and pulleys plus the same sort of hydraulic ram. You can always build a solution to any problem, however, will it be practical, and cost effective? I think that one of the previously discussed solutions (i.e. conductor in the cab for the last few minutes of travel into a stub-ended terminal, etc...) would be much more practical.
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Re: LIRR Derailment - Atlantic Terminal track 6

Postby Backshophoss » Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:57 am

Did they bury that pair in the Hillside Shop or at Arch Street for the NTSB's detailed inspection?
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Re: LIRR Derailment - Atlantic Terminal track 6

Postby mark777 » Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:14 am

Typically, passenger cars, (both electric and bilevel) will be taken to the HSF and brought inside for inspection, especially now that we are in winter. Regards to bumper blocks, especially at locations such as Atlantic Terminal and Port Washington or Long Beach, the purpose is to stop the train from moving forward. It is not designed to minimize damage to the trains, and truthfully, survivability of an impact with the bumper block will rely on the design of the rail car itself which should meet the guidelines set by the FRA and DOT. At this point in time, we should not have a train speeding into a terminal doing above 15 mh, but that's what happen in Hoboken. I don't think that there will be many (if any changes) to the design of the bumper blocks that already exist. In Europe, most stations I saw had simple bumper blocks but with hydraulic bumpers that would contact the buffers of the rail cars of the more standard equipment. A high speed train such as the TGV, AVE or ICE would suffer quite a bit of damage to the nose portion of the train if it were to make contact with it. Old school USA railroading simply wants to stop the train very much like a derail is there to derail the train. The assumption is the damage to the train is not as paramount as collateral damage that the train will cause when or if it does not stop where it was suppose to stop. Picture an M-7 making it through to the IRT without Belmont's former connection!!
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Atlantic Terminal Brooklyn Platform- Won't platform

Postby famcrown » Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:45 am

Is there a good reason why on track 1 they can't platform 8 cars and open all doors on 8 cars? They only open 6.  On Track 2, 8 sets of cars doors open and track 1 has just about the same room with space until the gate back there. 

Today with crowded trains from earlier Jamaica suspension, it was ridiculous that they couldn't open 8 cars  of crowded train on track 1.  This is safer, having people walkup on moving train as cars shift side to side?
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Re: Atlantic Terminal Brooklyn Platform- Won't platform

Postby inthebag » Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:56 am

They used to open up more cars until the gap lawsuits started rolling in.
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Re: Atlantic Terminal Brooklyn Platform- Won't platform

Postby famcrown » Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:40 am

However, on that platform, in that sapce, there is no gap for cars 7 and 8 on track 1. There is no reason why they shouldn't open those doors. New regulation should apply on an individual platform basis.
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