Biometric Timeclocks are coming

Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.

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Datenail
Posts: 268
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:29 pm

Re: Biometric Timeclocks are coming

Post by Datenail » Sun May 19, 2019 11:45 pm

The only way the clock would reduce cost is if you believe that the crews were fabricating the arrival times on their deadheads. The only difference is some crews now cant commute when traffic is light or will be less likely to hang out for a one way.
The company isn't worried about costs its worried about image and explaining what it does. When the company goes before the IG, MTA, Governors office and media, they have to explain why they pay employees to different terminals but the employees dont have to actually go there. When the biometric timeclock system is in place, they can blame the union agreements for having to pay employees back to the terminals and further explain how they compel the employee to do so in order to clock out and be paid. The company then passes the blame to the unions that everyone hates and shines like a new penny for anyone that asks because the employee has to actually be on the property, clock out and then get paid. Its a winning scenario for the company and the MTA. If the unions that represent the current employees that do not clock in and out, fight the new biometric system and win then the company can blame the union agreements for paying back to terminals and the inability to force employees to use a timeclock. The company can blame the unions that everyone loves to hate. The backup plan to losing on the time clock issue is for employees to be required to report to a designated manager when they deadhead back. If the unions fight this, they will not win.

eolesen
Posts: 414
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 12:01 am

Re: Biometric Timeclocks are coming

Post by eolesen » Mon May 20, 2019 10:37 am

Absolute-Limited Advance-Approach wrote:The only way the clock would reduce cost is if you believe that the crews were fabricating the arrival times on their deadheads.
All I can say is that my firsthand experience is that biometrics eliminate most opportunities for timecard fraud, and paper timesheets facilitate a lot of fraud nobody likes to talk about i.e. rounding up by 20-30 minutes, showing up late yet always starting ontime, buddy punching, shift ghosting...

I remember one case from my time working at JFK where an employee left work two hours early, got in a fatal accident on the way home, yet still managed to punch out at the end of his shift using his magstripe badge.

To add insult to injury, I recall the family tried to argue he was killed on-duty.

Absolute-Limited Advance-Approach
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:47 pm

Re: Biometric Timeclocks are coming

Post by Absolute-Limited Advance-Approach » Mon May 20, 2019 11:31 am

eolesen wrote:
Absolute-Limited Advance-Approach wrote:The only way the clock would reduce cost is if you believe that the crews were fabricating the arrival times on their deadheads.
All I can say is that my firsthand experience is that biometrics eliminate most opportunities for timecard fraud, and paper timesheets facilitate a lot of fraud nobody likes to talk about i.e. rounding up by 20-30 minutes, showing up late yet always starting ontime, buddy punching, shift ghosting...

I remember one case from my time working at JFK where an employee left work two hours early, got in a fatal accident on the way home, yet still managed to punch out at the end of his shift using his magstripe badge.

To add insult to injury, I recall the family tried to argue he was killed on-duty.
Shift ghosting is the only thing it can change, OT claims are evaluated to-the-minute by the claims department and based on electronic arrival times of trains so there is no rounding error. If you claim extra time without a corroborated explanation it gets denied.

eolesen
Posts: 414
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 12:01 am

Re: Biometric Timeclocks are coming

Post by eolesen » Mon May 20, 2019 11:48 am

Absolute-Limited Advance-Approach wrote:
Shift ghosting is the only thing it can change, OT claims are evaluated to-the-minute by the claims department and based on electronic arrival times of trains so there is no rounding error. If you claim extra time without a corroborated explanation it gets denied.
It sounds like you're focused on operating crew. All of the potential fraud now being evaluated looks to be in other trades where a train arrival/departure time isn't necessarily relevant.

Commuter X
Posts: 333
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:04 pm
Location: Stuck on a train somewhere ...

Re: Biometric Timeclocks are coming

Post by Commuter X » Mon May 20, 2019 5:39 pm

Similar to the disability scandal, a few folks abuse the system and everyone gets penalized

The O/T story will not go away until reforms are in place.

BuddR32
Posts: 245
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:14 pm

Re: Biometric Timeclocks are coming

Post by BuddR32 » Mon May 20, 2019 10:53 pm

Commuter X wrote:Similar to the disability scandal, a few folks abuse the system and everyone gets penalized

The O/T story will not go away until reforms are in place.
I disagree, they can do nothing at all, and the story will pass, replaced by something else. It will resurface in a few years again. This isn't the first show of this game.

geico
Posts: 430
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:54 pm

Re: Biometric Timeclocks are coming

Post by geico » Thu May 23, 2019 11:12 am

Waste of time and money..... Its just something to say they did something....

jlr3266
Posts: 547
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2004 7:32 am

Re: Biometric Timeclocks are coming

Post by jlr3266 » Sun May 26, 2019 7:11 pm

MTA claims that consultants cost too much. MTA claims OT is rampant. MTA announces hiring consultant to look into OT.

MTA and Management...

Datenail
Posts: 268
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:29 pm

Re: Biometric Timeclocks are coming

Post by Datenail » Mon May 27, 2019 10:56 am

Similar to the disability scandal, a few folks abuse the system and everyone gets penalized
It wasn't the few it was the many who abused the system. The few are the ones with legitimate disabilities that had their disability annuity suspended while the issue was being investigated. They were the ones penalized. The many were hiding in their closets hoping they didn't get arrested.

The transportation unions are claiming that they are going to try to stop the time clock requirement. I don't think they will be successful in this day and age. They should be careful because the carrier may try to have a court nullify the home terminal rule. This is the only reason that unions without time clock requirements would fight this. The Home Terminal. I don't believe a judge will agree that the carrier should be forced to pay an employee to sit home because of a union agreement designed to return the employee from where they started. The unions may have to accept what is inevitable, such as a time clock to protect their agreements.
Waste of time and money..... Its just something to say they did something....
Its isn't supposed to save money. It's a cover to prevent having to explain to the MTA Board why some employees are paid back to their terminals but not have to actually travel there. When this comes up, the carrier describes the Home Terminal rule and it often isn't recieved well. There are many instances where something doesn't make sense but is done out of spite or jealousy. Parking is a great example. Dont you guys see how parking for employees are reduced everytime they rebuild a yard or facility? The attitude is that parking space is not in your contract and you have a free pass so use it. They could do more but they dont because they don't want to.

ADL6009
Posts: 295
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:47 pm

Re: Biometric Timeclocks are coming

Post by ADL6009 » Wed May 29, 2019 9:34 am

Just a heads up, a lot of things that Datenail says are “definitely going to happen” usually don’t happen. Just do a search of his posts circa 2009-2011 and you will see what I mean.
Last edited by ADL6009 on Wed May 29, 2019 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

ADL6009
Posts: 295
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Re: Biometric Timeclocks are coming

Post by ADL6009 » Wed May 29, 2019 9:36 am

Home terminal isn’t just going to go away because it’s unpopular or by a ruling from a judge. It was agreed to by both sides and if one side is no longer happy with it they can negotiate a proper payment for it to go away. Don’t hold your breath, it will cost a fortune to get ride of home terminal.

ADL6009
Posts: 295
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:47 pm

Re: Biometric Timeclocks are coming

Post by ADL6009 » Wed May 29, 2019 9:44 am

Datenail wrote:The company isn't worried about costs its worried about image....
I think that perfectly summarizes why the MTA is so screwed up

Datenail
Posts: 268
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:29 pm

Re: Biometric Timeclocks are coming

Post by Datenail » Wed May 29, 2019 11:23 am

How insulting ADL!
I didnt say that the home terminal change was going to happen. I cautioned that the unions could possibly lose the agreement if they insist on fighting the time clock initiative. Theres a difference because I wasn't making a prediction, just stating an opinion. It has been done before by the court but you wouldnt know that because you simply dont know. Arbitration can and is sometimes overturned by courts. The BLE manning rule interpretation was changed by a court. Read a little more before you make comments.

ADL6009
Posts: 295
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:47 pm

Re: Biometric Timeclocks are coming

Post by ADL6009 » Wed May 29, 2019 11:30 am

[REDACTED DUE TO NO SENSE OF HUMOR]
Last edited by ADL6009 on Wed May 29, 2019 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Datenail
Posts: 268
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:29 pm

Re: Biometric Timeclocks are coming

Post by Datenail » Wed May 29, 2019 12:49 pm

You know what they say about Opinions.
Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and they all STINK
Thank you for displaying on a public forum your anatomical knowledge and lack of bathing skills.

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