The Long Island Six

Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.

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The Long Island Six

Postby Commuter X » Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:18 pm

Thanks to the "Long Island Six" (you know who they are), we now have the nations first congestion pricing fee.
Let's call it what it really is -- a tax instead of a toll

Along with this comes a something called the "MTA Rail Act" -- which stands for the MTA Revitalization, Accountability, Improvement and Legitimization Act
It calls for among other things, an independent forensic audit of the MTA's procurements

Here is the question which I posed to my State Senator -- we have a fully functional Office of the Inspector General, which provides independent oversight of all MTA operations.
They have conducted audits of the LIRR in the past and found deficiencies.

http://www.mtaig.state.ny.us/reports.html

If the IG's office is incapable of providing an independent audit, the law needs to be changed or shut the whole thing down.
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Re: The Long Island Six

Postby BuddR32 » Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:46 am

It certainly is nothing more than a tax. Anyone who thinks it will fix the MTA is a fool. It is nothing more than a money grab.

How it is constitutionally legal, I have no idea.

NYers are probably the dumbest constituency, and they believe and take whatever is fed them. We allowed them to pass a bill to charge us to use roads that we the people own, and this bill was passed while no clear declaration has been made as to what the toll will cost. Likely to cost $11 or $12 isn't good enough for me.

Remember the toll at the poll!
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Re: The Long Island Six

Postby Publius Plunkett » Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:15 pm

I thought the price of the toll is pretty steep. Trucks will pay $25 and honestly, I think that is very unfair. Commuters do have options such as mass transit, but truckers don't. On the bright side, NYCTA, LIRR and MNCR will receive quite a bit of funding, if what the media is saying is true. But like all things New York, money will be syphoned off for something other than transit.

Although this "Congestion toll" is a first in the US, there are a few examples of having to pay a premium toll if you ride in certain lanes during rush hour, etc. Is this "Congestion toll" a one-time daily toll? Or every time you enter Manhattan south of 60th street?
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Re: The Long Island Six

Postby Patch Hog » Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:59 pm

Since I do not routinely drive into Manhattan, I will happily pay the toll on the rare occasion when I do if it means fewer cars and actually being able to get where I'm going at faster than a walking pace.
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Re: The Long Island Six

Postby Teutobergerwald » Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:12 pm

Why not all of Manhattan? Hmmmmm.....
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Re: The Long Island Six

Postby DogBert » Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:32 am

Ya'all ever take a drive around Chicago? Every other highway there is a toll road. I'm surprised the LIE isn't a toll road.

I'm skeptical it will fix anything, and even more skeptical that the revenue will go towards better transit.

They should have regulated uber and lyft much more strictly - they are the root cause for the dramatic traffic increase around here over the years, and I'm not sure that will change with congestion pricing.
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Re: The Long Island Six

Postby Publius Plunkett » Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:32 pm

They should have regulated uber and lyft much more strictly - they are the root cause for the dramatic traffic increase around here over the years, and I'm not sure that will change with congestion pricing.


I don't know if they were able to do any more than they did. Uber and Lyft are backed by real money and they spread it generously amongst the City Council. Medallion drivers don't have the financial and political muscle of a large bank account. The drivers association was able to get a City law passed to cap the amount of Uber and Lyft vehicles for a year to "study" their impact on the industry and city. Just getting a minimum rate and wage took three years of heavy lobbying by the taxi industry. Uber and Lyft were undercutting taxis and killing their livelihoods. The value of a taxi medallion went from over one million to less than 200k. They have had guys indebted to their medallion payments commit suicide.

But, you're right. Before Uber and Lyft, there were about 15,000 ride hailing cabs in the City. Now there are over 65,000 (inc.. Uber and Lyft). People are opting for Uber and Lyft, instead of busses, subways and yellow taxis. It's just so easy. Hit an app on the phone...nice car pulls up, you get in and ride. No piss smells, inaudible token booth speakers, panhandlers begging for money....nothing. Peace and quiet. No wonder people opt for Uber and Lyft.

They need regulation here on Long Island. The price difference between a Uber and a yellow cab is significant. And the overnight parking in neighborhoods is getting worse. People park their Livery plated Uber/Lyft cars in the street along with their family vehicles and its adding to more cars in a neighborhood. Some Towns ban overnight parking of Livery plated vehicles but its not being enforced. The police will only ticket commercial plated vehicles, even though some town codes also specifically prohibit overnight parking of livery vehicles. And then the neighborhood runs down to crap.
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Re: The Long Island Six

Postby njt/mnrrbuff » Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:36 pm

In general, the price difference between Uber and Cab companies is wide.
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Re: The Long Island Six

Postby MACTRAXX » Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:57 am

Everyone:

Interesting subject concerning the implementation of congestion pricing to Manhattan south of 60th Street...

PP: I recall that the number of NYC Yellow Cab medallions was 11,787 for many years until more yellows were added along with the green "Borough Cabs"
in primarily the past two decades. There have been "Black Car" services (corporate voucher account type) since the 1980s. The number of for-hire vehicles
has increased substantially in the last 10 years with Uber and Lyft also being regulated somewhat by the NYC T&LC.

The City of London is perhaps the best example of congestion pricing that information is available about - the charge is a one time flat fee (GBP 11.50) during peak
daytime hours (7AM to 6PM) on weekdays. The charge is applied just once daily no matter how many times a vehicle crosses in and out of the central price zone.
Also note the Ultra Low Emission Zone (ULEZ) that is enforced at all times alongside the weekday Congestion Charge in central London.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/congestion-charge
www.tfl.gov.uk/ruc-cdn/static/cms/image ... ez-map.jpg

The charge will probably be collected by banks of scanners in a similar fashion to cashless EZPass tolls around what will be the new Manhattan price zone.

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Last edited by MACTRAXX on Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Long Island Six

Postby BM6569 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:00 pm

Apparently the LIRR and Metro North will each get 10% or a billion dollars from estimated tolls taken in through this
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Re: The Long Island Six

Postby commuterjoe » Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:21 pm

I could be wrong, but it seems like any time the government tells us that certain revenues will be "dedicated" or in a "lockbox", it's usually pure BS. The new revenue generated really is dedicated. The problem is that the old revenue is siphoned off to other purposes, leaving little net gain. Remember when NJ residents were told that if gambling was legalized in Atlantic City, the new revenue would be used to clean up the area and vastly improve education? How well did that work out? Cuomo tells us that the LIRR will get 10% of the new revenues. How long before he taps into the existing "old" budget for some shiny new project like the 2nd Ave subway or a new bridge, leaving little money for any tangible improvements
?
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Re: The Long Island Six

Postby nyandw » Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:50 am

[quote="Commuter X"]Thanks to the "Long Island Six" (you know who they are), we now have the nations first congestion pricing fee.
Let's call it what it really is -- a tax instead of a toll..."

I don't know who they are thus, Call them out for us not in the know? To concur with you... It's another big Gov't intrusion to regulate daily life (cloaked as a toll). King George III of England (1738-1820) would be proud, as I assume (D) Rep Cortez will enjoy, perhaps? :wink:
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Re: The Long Island Six

Postby Arborwayfan » Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:33 pm

After living for a year in Oslo, where every road in and out of the city has automatic tolls and where every place in the city is very well served by public transportation and where trains or express buses reach all the suburbs, I have to say that making people pay to drive into a city really does help. I'm not inside the heads of the New York State Legislature and I can't speak to what the state or the city will actually do, but I have to say that it is simply not true that congestion pricing can only be a hidden tax. Congestion pricing can work, and if it's backed up with proper public transportation it can make nearly everyone better off. (People don't necessarily like it in Norway, either, but the 1/3 of Oslo that doesn't have a car and the much larger fraction that rarely drives into the city core benefit.) Government interference in people's lives? No more than using my property taxes to pay to repair and expand city streets when I'd rather have more buses or more bike paths or more sidewalks. In big cities, people live together densely. It's reasonable for them to use government to make it as pleasant and easy as possible to to that.

As for $25 for a truck, I wouldn't pity anyone. They'll pass it on to the customers who will hardly notice. Think of the price to deliver a full truckload of something somewhere, and then add on $25 -- not much. $25 extra on hiring movers? Nothing. $25 extra on renting and using a UHaul? A bigger fraction, but still not bank-breaking. $25 spread across a few hundred UPS deliveries? Nothing.
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Re: The Long Island Six

Postby Commuter X » Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:31 pm

There will be so many "carve-outs", the State will never collect the amount of money it estimates to collect

Proceeds from the lottery has done wonders for public education

Finally watch NY lose another 2 congressional seats after the next census -- But Junior says everything's OK
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