Westbury Wreck 02/26/2019

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Re: Westbury Wreck 02/26/2019

Postby SwingMan » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:10 am

Welcome to 2019, where you can't have a discussion on a discussion board.
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Re: Westbury Wreck 02/26/2019

Postby freightguy » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:42 pm

This is why a lot of current/retired employees no longer post on here. Chatised for reporting factual information not just hearsay from the buffs. A shame more people have shifted to private FB groups and so forth. Used to be a lot of good insight as to railroad operations sometimes with well warranted opinions.
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Re: Westbury Wreck 02/26/2019

Postby Backshophoss » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:34 pm

For better or worse,this is sill an active investigation,and throw in the "Better Call Saul" type legal beagles doing their thing for the civil lawsuits,
where facts can be twisted around. :(
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Re: Westbury Wreck 02/26/2019

Postby mjd13076 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:13 am

Just out of curiosity... Yes, I know that these cars will be parked in a yard for a while but...

I’ve seen a ton of pictures of the wrecked 7425. Is it eventually salvageable? I mean, other than cannibalized for parts, etc... Would it and could it conceivably be “fixed” (as in like when an automobile gets into an accident) or quite simply, there was too much damage to the cab controls, interior for it to be of use?
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Re: Westbury Wreck 02/26/2019

Postby DutchRailnut » Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:22 am

since the cars are impounded, they can't be evaluated for repair, no one is suppose to touch them, so that pile of concrete will make it impossible to see what can be repaired.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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Re: Westbury Wreck 02/26/2019

Postby Kelly&Kelly » Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:27 pm

M of E has thoroughly inspected the cars and it is that department's opinion that two of them will be scrapped for bent center sills. Now anything can be fixed and since the Mechanical Department doesn't have the final say, it is anyone's guess what happens. Sort of depends on which way the wind is blowing. The railroad usually loves to get rid of this stuff because repairs are costly and capital money keeps coming. Scrapping youthful multi-million dollar rail cars is a sensitive and discrete issue that can make for negative publicity.

I trust I've used no trigger words in this statement.
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Re: Westbury Wreck 02/26/2019

Postby mjd13076 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:33 pm

Thanks for the info, fellas (Dutch and Kelly).

So I’m guessing that a “center sill” is like the frame of a car or a keel of a ship? It’s the “spine” to the structure?
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Re: Westbury Wreck 02/26/2019

Postby Kelly&Kelly » Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:34 pm

Yes it is. Like a twisted frame in an automobile, a bent sill in a railcar requires extensive work to replace. The LIRR's shop can repair anything. There's equipment and skill to build a complete car. At some point a decision must be made as to the cost/benefit of repairs and reconstruction along with public critique and political fallout. An entire thread can be written on the conflicts arising from past decisions of this nature.
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Re: Westbury Wreck 02/26/2019

Postby DutchRailnut » Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:56 pm

not sure a M-7 has a center sill, if its like a M-3, it is car body giving it strength and under the floor are only two equipment rails to hold HVAC/electrical boxes compressor and such .
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Re: Westbury Wreck 02/26/2019

Postby Kelly&Kelly » Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:36 pm

As usual, Dutch is correct. The M-7's can be best compared to a unibody auto; the rigidity is in the body. When the body gets twisted into misalignment, it can be difficult and costly to repair. Thank you, Triebfahrzeugführer.
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Re: Westbury Wreck 02/26/2019

Postby Head-end View » Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:53 pm

K & K, could you explain further what public critique and political fallout can come out of rebuilding/repairing damaged train cars? I don't really get why this is such a sensitive issue.

But if we were to compare this to a seriously damaged automobile, I would agree that it's probably better to total it than to repair it, 'cause even a good quality repair will never be quite like original. And the vehicle will forever have related problems. Is that a good comparison?
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Re: Westbury Wreck 02/26/2019

Postby R36 Combine Coach » Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:55 pm

Kelly&Kelly wrote:The M-7's can be best compared to a unibody auto; the rigidity is in the body. When the body gets twisted into misalignment, it can be difficult and costly to repair.
I would bring up the legendary 1964-1965-1966 Chrysler Imperials, the last before unibody construction. These were so well built and basically indestructible, they have been banned from crash derbies.

And yes, some monocoque cars can and do have a center sill. The NJT/NJDOT Arrow I MUs are an integral (load carrying) car shell in which the stainless sheetmetal that made up the sides, ends and roof formed a unitized (monocoque) structure with the stainless center sill. This eliminated the need for conventional steel framing. I believe many Budd cars used such construction.
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Re: Westbury Wreck 02/26/2019

Postby Kelly&Kelly » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:08 am

K & K, could you explain further what public critique and political fallout can come out of rebuilding/repairing damaged train cars? I don't really get why this is such a sensitive issue.

Most everything the LIRR chooses to do that involves spending taxpayer dollars is subjected to scrutiny by the public and by the media. Decisions are evaluated by a sensationalist press and by oppositional self-serving political adversaries. Public opinion of the railroad's actions is seldom guided by facts alone.

A decision must be made whether to rebuild/repair a car or scrap it. An apolitical climate would permit comparison of costs and outcomes. The most financially prudent route would prevail.

We recall three cases where minor repairs were required and the railroad's decision to undertake repairs and return cars to service met great public criticism. In each case, two million dollars were saved through retaining the cars. All three decisions were heavily criticized by the media. Two cars were involved in criminal acts where passengers lost their lives. One was involved in an employee fatality. One car struck an automobile resulting in a death.

The fallout from all three decisions drew media-fueled public frenzy and outcry. Railroad management was lambasted in print for "insensitivity" and "lack of common sense" by failing to scrap "tainted/evil/jinxed railcars". One writer demanded a specific M-1 be placed on permanent display as some sort of monument. One car was later set ablaze later by arsonists, as would a medieval witch to loose evil spirits. One recommissioning nearly cost a railroad president his position.

One must tread softly in decisions of this nature. The political environment is a strange one, and a critical and misled public is easily frenzied.
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Re: Westbury Wreck 02/26/2019

Postby Head-end View » Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:04 pm

Thank you K & K. Very interesting even if it is hard to believe, but I get your point.

I have seen the two re-numbered cars from the criminal incident in actual service. For what my opinion is worth I think LIRR handled that exactly right. No reason not to return two mechanically sound cars back to service after a reasonable refurbishing and renumbering.
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Re: Westbury Wreck 02/26/2019

Postby Backshophoss » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:49 pm

The "given" is if the equipment involved creates too much "bad PR", it disappears instead of rebuilt,especially if Fatalities happened in the cars
due to the accident/wreck.
After the legal "hold" was released,the M-8's from the sideswipe wreck and the M-7's from the Vahalla wreck were sent to the Ohio scrapper
That pair from the Westbury platform wreck will disappear to the Ohio scrapper when the legal hold is released.
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