LIRR C-Liner engines

Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.

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Re: LIRR sea liner engines

Postby scopelliti » Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:43 am

I know I've seen such a photo... can't seem to figure out whee. But the cover of John Scala's book seems to have two C-Liners and some coaches in tow. I can scan it, but copyright?
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Re: LIRR sea liner engines

Postby RGlueck » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:51 am

Scope, there are enough copies of that book floating around, so you needn't scan the photo. Still, I think if you list the source, nobody is going to come after you.

It's kind of a shame the book was never updated, to include the post-ALCO era of burned out MP15's and failed DE's and DM's!

Some years ago a friend and I designed and sold LIRR Commemorative shirts with G5s #35 0n the front, and examples of all post-steam Diesels on the back. Rights to reproduce the shirts were given to Twin Forks NRHS. I often thought another shirt issue could be made with the L2's in pastel blue and yellow, then the other ALCO's, the GP38's in all the paint scheme incarnations, then the MP15's and DE, DM things. You could even include one the lost NH FL9's in MTA paint.

Another shirt could be made with all the varieties of LIRR MU cars and their paint schemes.

The idea's out there, but I don't know how many would sell.
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Re: LIRR sea liner engines

Postby C-LINER 2001 » Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:15 pm

My Dad was in "Engine Service" from 1941 to 1977, Dad told me that the Management fell that 2000/2400 HP was powerful enough and they later regretted it, the C-Liners serve the LIRR well, powerful on their own and Dad (nickname DP) enjoy his CPA-20 #2001 to the last day of service pulling those P-54/P72/P74 mix to Upton to "Y" the train every night.
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Re: LIRR sea liner engines

Postby scopelliti » Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:50 pm

Mr Glueck.. spoke to Mr Scala a while back and he indicated a revised version was in the works, but sadly never happened.

I remember those shirts well.. I bought two of them! Only worn to model railroad operating sessions.

Funny, you hit on my standard nickname: scope -- Been called that forever. :)
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Re: LIRR sea liner engines

Postby scopelliti » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:47 pm

RGlueck wrote:Another shirt could be made with all the varieties of LIRR MU cars and their paint schemes.

The idea's out there, but I don't know how many would sell.

I would buy at least one of the MU car shirts!
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Re: LIRR sea liner engines

Postby Crabman1130 » Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:52 pm

scopelliti wrote:I know I've seen such a photo... can't seem to figure out whee. But the cover of John Scala's book seems to have two C-Liners and some coaches in tow. I can scan it, but copyright?

I believe if you are not using the photo for monetary gain there is no copyright infringement.
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Re: LIRR sea liner engines

Postby Crabman1130 » Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:55 pm

RGlueck wrote:
Some years ago a friend and I designed and sold LIRR Commemorative shirts with G5s #35 0n the front, and examples of all post-steam Diesels on the back. Rights to reproduce the shirts were given to Twin Forks NRHS. I often thought another shirt issue could be made with the L2's in pastel blue and yellow, then the other ALCO's, the GP38's in all the paint scheme incarnations, then the MP15's and DE, DM things. You could even include one the lost NH FL9's in MTA paint.

.

I think the shirt you are talking about was for the ALCO era of the RR.
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Re: LIRR sea liner engines

Postby nyandw » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:56 am

Crabman1130 wrote:
scopelliti wrote:I know I've seen such a photo... can't seem to figure out whee. But the cover of John Scala's book seems to have two C-Liners and some coaches in tow. I can scan it, but copyright?

I believe if you are not using the photo for monetary gain there is no copyright infringement.


This has been an ongoing argument on the net for 15+ years. Here's my view after 20 years with my LIRR web site.
1. I have no monetary gain to obtain.
2. Photos are typically reduced to 800 pixels wide for web viewing and posting, thus of no value to copy/reproduce for sale.
3. I try to credit everything to the photographer/archive/collection when available.
4. Much of the photo material posted on the internet has the © symbol... Meaning nonsense. Did they really spend money to copyright the photo as intellectual property for protection? Against what? Someone reposting your material to further share your nice work? Yawn.
5. Some of you many recall the "pissing contest" a few years back over my posting some material, an unattributed photo, that I requested credits/info on prior. A "tempest in a teapot" as what money was in play?
6. With over 10G on my web site (somewhere between 2-10,000 photos, I have had one request over the years from an 85 year old to take his engine photo down as it would effect his income stream. Later, I just gave him credit, case closed.

Scan it, credit it, send it to me, and I'll post it. Let me know. I just viewed the photo on John's book as follows, with info:
'Railfan Norman Kohl captures train 4012, with doubleheaded C-Liners (second unit in tow as they did not multiple) just west of Bethpage on 10/13/63.'

Thus: Doubleheaded/MU visually, but not in power as the 2nd unit "towed" not MU as not possible. I hand this back to the OP. Best,
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Re: LIRR sea liner engines

Postby docsteve » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:41 am

Is that a blue stripe on the first car behind the power? If so, I would guess this is the Sunday afternoon eastbound Montauk shuttling locomotives for the evening westbounds. A few years later that train would have six Alco 420s.
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Re: LIRR sea liner engines

Postby mp15ac » Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:34 pm

An interesting fact about the LIRR C-Liners is that they were the only cab units built without multiple unit capability.

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Re: LIRR C-Liner engines

Postby RGlueck » Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:25 am

Had they been fitted with MU, I wonder if they would have lasted any longer in commuter service?

I don't know how standard FM mu'ing worked. Baldwins were pneumatic, which wasn't interchangeable with other makers in service.
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Re: LIRR C-Liner engines

Postby Cameron Wolk » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:05 pm

RGlueck wrote:Had they been fitted with MU, I wonder if they would have lasted any longer in commuter service?

I don't know how standard FM mu'ing worked. Baldwins were pneumatic, which wasn't interchangeable with other makers in service.

FM offered electric throttle MU as an extra cost option like Baldwin but it was not standard at the time which hurt the company's early sales. Honestly I have no idea what the LIRR was thinking not buying the C-Liners without it. They thought they were buying another steam engine and ignorance hit them again. What I don't get is how FM remained in the locomotive business til 63 and yet they still didn't manage to add MU in the time provided. What a waste as usual, they would've made great HEP conversions.
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Re: LIRR C-Liner engines

Postby RGlueck » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:03 am

Cameron, I've had the same thought regarding dragging their feet on MUing the C-Liners. Of course, for 98% of the trains run by LIRR, there was no need to run two C-Liners.

I do know the CMO, Jack Brannon, hated the FM units with a passion, and told me personally, he wished they had purchased EMD GP7's, way back in the 50's. He didn't like the ALCO's either.
The down-time with the FM's was just frustrating as heck, because while they rode well and pulled like heck, anything mechanical meant a total tear-down of the PM. They were far worse to work on than the ALCO's and the ALCO's were harder than the EMD's.
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Re: LIRR C-Liner engines

Postby Head-end View » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:09 pm

Sorry to hear they were such crappy engines. As a kid I liked the low-pitched hum and the sight of them traveling down the road.
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Re: LIRR C-Liner engines

Postby Cameron Wolk » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:29 pm

RGlueck wrote:Cameron, I've had the same thought regarding dragging their feet on MUing the C-Liners. Of course, for 98% of the trains run by LIRR, there was no need to run two C-Liners.

I do know the CMO, Jack Brannon, hated the FM units with a passion, and told me personally, he wished they had purchased EMD GP7's, way back in the 50's. He didn't like the ALCO's either.
The down-time with the FM's was just frustrating as heck, because while they rode well and pulled like heck, anything mechanical meant a total tear-down of the PM. They were far worse to work on than the ALCO's and the ALCO's were harder than the EMD's.

If I'm correct Richard they did have a GP-7 demonstrator visit the property not to their amusement. The LIRR had some interesting motive power visit Morris Park back in the day. I remember seeing photos of an Alco PA, FM Trainmaster, BLW DRS-4-4-1500, SD-7 and some other "one of a kind" units for advertising purposes. One thing I'll say is management did not like anything with a C-C truck frame, it wrecked the light rails like butter.
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