Third Rail Hazards

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Third Rail Hazards

Postby phillyrube » Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:04 pm

Looking at subway stuff, and noticed LIRR runs on third rail. How is it protected from kids playing on the tracks? I used to hang around the Reading as a kid, and well know the attraction of kids and trains. I can see some kid with a coathanger poking the thing.
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Re: Third Rail Hazards

Postby Kelly&Kelly » Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:23 pm

He'll only poke it once.
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Re: Third Rail Hazards

Postby MattAmity90 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:26 pm

It may only be 750 volts, but the amps and current that kill you. In this case 750 volts of DIRECT CURRENT! With the speed of our trains, we have high safety fencing, and even though we still have 293 grade crossings (including one branch where we fully grade-separated it in phases from 1950-1980) most of them are in diesel territory.
This station is Babylon, this is the train to Penn Station. Stopping at: Lindenhurst, Copiague, Amityville, Massapequa Park, Massapequa, Seaford, Wantagh, Bellmore, Merrick, Freeport, Baldwin, Rockville Centre, Lynbrook, Valley Stream, Jamaica, Kew Gardens, Forest Hills, Woodside, Penn Station.
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Re: Third Rail Hazards

Postby DutchRailnut » Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:46 pm

Playing on tracks is punishable by death, train or third rail does it matter ?
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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Re: Third Rail Hazards

Postby EuroStar » Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:14 pm

In most places there is very little in terms of physical barrier preventing a child (or adult) from electrocuting themselves. In practical terms that seems to be really rare. I do not recall the last time someone from the general public electrocuting themselves on third rail. Many more people die at vehicle and pedestrian crossings in third rail territory than from electrocution. This is likely due to may reasons:
1. Education: when the electrification to Ronkonkoma happened, LIRR partnered with the local schools to educate children on the danger of the third rail. Local schools/fire departments probably do it to some extent to this day too, even without the LIRR involvement.
2. Signage: no trespassing signs can be found in many places, on many railroad structures including poles.
3. In many places the right of way is not easy to access: behind private property that is fenced, elevated on a embankment, or inside a cut.
4. Current children and teens have other ways to amuse themselves: iPads,the internet, social media. Hanging out and doing mischief is not as popular as it used to be 40-50 years ago.
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Re: Third Rail Hazards

Postby nyandw » Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:52 pm

Image

Not exactly 3rd rail, but perhaps may be of interest: "The Danger sign is for going trackside. People have to be told that nowadays, we’ve had people get hit with earbuds walking near the tracks back to the train." Info/Photo: Tim Darnell
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Re: Third Rail Hazards

Postby MattAmity90 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:13 am

Unless you contain the tracks in a tube above ground or convert them to subways, they are still going to find a way around it. Then again if they enclosed above ground tracks next to houses, well that would be pointless and no further comment.
This station is Babylon, this is the train to Penn Station. Stopping at: Lindenhurst, Copiague, Amityville, Massapequa Park, Massapequa, Seaford, Wantagh, Bellmore, Merrick, Freeport, Baldwin, Rockville Centre, Lynbrook, Valley Stream, Jamaica, Kew Gardens, Forest Hills, Woodside, Penn Station.
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Re: Third Rail Hazards

Postby workextra » Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:01 am

You can’t protect them all. Darwin said it best.
Some must die, like it or not. That’s sinply how nature works. It’s a sad fact of life on earth. Unfortunately the lawyers have yet to accept this reality and think they actually got a case. All’s well for all that schooling they went for.
I repeat. You can’t protect them all. If you can’t habdke it you may go cry in your safe room.

They just built 3 mile fence on the southern border of the LIRR and Mastic Shirley. But the locals already breached it with crude ladders made of ties and fork lift pallets as well as shopping carts
Even there- you can’t protect them all. And there’s no third rail.
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Re: Third Rail Hazards

Postby nyandw » Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:07 pm

workextra wrote:You can’t protect them all. Darwin said it best. Some must die, like it or not. That’s simply how nature works. It’s a sad fact of life on earth. Unfortunately the lawyers have yet to accept this reality and think they actually got a case. All’s well for all that schooling they went for. I repeat. You can’t protect them all. If you can’t handle it you may go cry in your safe room...


Thank you, workextra...Playgrounds eliminated, warning labels on cups, etc. Caution Hot, the additional cost to manufactures to hire lawyers and provide disclaimers, labels on everything, ad infinitum. Thus, we all pay more. I'll give you a hypothetical potential idiotic scenario: Hurricane warnings along the Fire Island/Jones Beach shore... Surfers go out and drown. Thus we MUST provide warning signs, patrols, and education tax payer dollars to prevent the "Darwin Chosen Stupid" from this activity. Sorry, back to trains... Thus:

Image
3rd RAIL ACTIVATION WARNING Ronkonkoma 12/09/1987 Posted near Knickerbocker Ave. on the east side of the electric yard. View W Photo/Archive: Dave Keller
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Re: Third Rail Hazards

Postby nyandw » Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:10 am

A few more: Image
3rd RAIL POWER TURNED ON Electrification project active Farmingdale 6/13/1987 Photo: William GIlligan, Capt. US Navy

Image
3rd RAIL ACTIVATION WARNING Republic Station 09/87 Photo: CAPT. William Gilligan, US Navy

Image
"CAUTION: ELECTRICAL RAIL" LIRR Photo: Ben Jankowski

Image
NEW LOTS FREIGHT YARD - WARNING SIGN "Live Wire" English-Italian-Yiddish warning sign zoom 1946 Photo: Fred Weber

"And the beat goes on..." Perhaps Gump had it right: "Stupid is as stupid does." ?
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Re: Third Rail Hazards

Postby Norton » Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:56 am

nyandw:
I have to question the labels on photos you have identified as Farmingdale and Republic. They look identical to me, right down to the stains on the sign. I don't know which is wrong, but I'd say they're the same sign.
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Re: Third Rail Hazards

Postby RGlueck » Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:17 am

It happened with kids riding boxcar tops on the Bay Ridge line, under 11,000 volts AC. You cannot beat the laws of physics and evolution.

For individuals, we must feel badly for the loss, but as a population in continual dynamic change, nature harvests the weak and stupid. Any lawsuit against the railroad for being in place for over a hundred years, needs to be thrown out of court like a bullet.
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Re: Third Rail Hazards - some more thoughts

Postby MACTRAXX » Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:54 pm

Everyone:

Back when I first joined Railroad.net there was an interesting discussion about third rail - that ended
up being locked up because of some of the outrageous statements made by one poster there:
viewtopic.php?f=63&t=10526
(Dates: January 31-February 19, 2005)

Another discussion on this same subject was titled "LIRR third rail power supply" which dated from
March-April 2006 which added some more thoughts about the third rail and its differences between
the NYC Subway and the LIRR.
viewtopic.php?f=63&t=23027

The LIRR Forum Archives are a good place to search for more insight to answer questions about any
topics such as this one - and in all three (including this current active subject) the prime mention is
to respect the third rail power direct current power source. That was and is the clear message here.

MACTRAXX

P.S. Happy Holidays and the best wishes for 2018 to everyone here at the LIRR Forum!!!
Last edited by MACTRAXX on Mon Dec 25, 2017 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
EXPRESS TRAIN TO NEW YORK PENN STATION-NO JAMAICA ON THIS TRAIN-PLEASE STAND CLEAR OF THE CLOSING TRAIN DOORS
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Re: Third Rail Hazards

Postby vince » Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:08 pm

Regarding differences between LIRR and IND/BMT/IRT power. It's 750vdc & 600vdc and both are very, very dangerous.

Here's an article from a Feb 1956 Railroad Magazine about the worlds only private subway car which ran from the Belmont Hotel over the IRT tracks to Atlantic Avenue where it switched to the Long Island Rail Road tracks through Jamaica and east to Belmont Park.

viewtopic.php?f=63&t=157792&p=1298161&hilit=MINNIE#p1298161

Let's go to the races!

Regards and Happy Christmas to All!
vince Cockeram
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Free to All!
edit-add:
Oh, and on page 2 of these LIRR photos ther is a shot of the Belmont Park Treminal as-it-was in 1950. v
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Re: Third Rail Hazards

Postby nyandw » Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:36 pm

Norton wrote:nyandw:
I have to question the labels on photos you have identified as Farmingdale and Republic. They look identical to me, right down to the stains on the sign. I don't know which is wrong, but I'd say they're the same sign.


Norton: You're entirety correct... I received these at differing times, duh. I'll make the fix, thank you!
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