What's the logic behind some of the Jan.8 changes?

Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.

Moderator: Liquidcamphor

What's the logic behind some of the Jan.8 changes?

Postby pineywoodsman » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:03 am

So the next phase of Amtrak's renewal work starts with much more minimal impacts then the "Summer of Hell" (which it clearly wasn't).
Though I'm not sure why the LIRR decided to cancel the 5:06pm Huntington train & combine it with the 5:17pm. Both of these trains are fairly crowded, and the next train before the 5:06pm leaves Penn at 4:31pm. So this will result in a 45 min gap in Huntington line service at the beginning of the PM Rush hour.
Looking at the 2015 ridership book, this will result in 720 passengers being dumped on the 5:17pm which carries 1,090. Surely this will become a crush loaded train. The Huntington Branch will lose 720 seats, but the Babylon Branch gains 2 new trains and 4 cars to "compensate" for the 3 trains rerouted to Atlantic Term in the AM.
Meanwhile 2 of the most lightly used Babylon Trains in the PM Rush, the 4:57pm to Wantagh and the 5:03pm to Freeport (at 570 & 520 pax respectively) are left alone. Once again it seems politics seems to get in the way of logic on the LIRR.
The logical decision would've been to cancel the 5:03pm and have the 4:57pm add stops at RVC - Freeport (which would put it at 1090 in 12 cars just like the 5:17pm Hunt), and then leave the 5:06pm alone, or have it leave a few min earlier at 5:03pm if track space is the issue.
Honestly at least in my eyes the favoritism toward the Babylon Branch (and the outright neglect of the Huntington) doesn't get any clearer than this. :(
I know if I were having to wait 45 min to get on a jam packed train while people on some other branch get on a half empty train after only waiting 10 min I'd be pretty pissed. Esp when paying hundreds of $$ a month.
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

— Benjamin Franklin
pineywoodsman
 
Posts: 288
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2005 12:42 am
Location: Westbury,NY

Re: What's the logic behind some of the Jan.8 changes?

Postby BM6569 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:30 am

Are they adding more cars to the train?
User avatar
BM6569
 
Posts: 1288
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2004 12:19 pm
Location: Hebron, Maine

Re: What's the logic behind some of the Jan.8 changes?

Postby CTG » Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:39 pm

Perhaps it has more to do with operations than it does with politics? A train that arrives in Huntington after 6:15pm is dead equipment for the rest of the remainder of the rush hour. A train that arrives in Freeport at 5:45 can be back at Penn Station for another eastbound run before 7pm.
CTG
 
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 11:59 pm

Re: What's the logic behind some of the Jan.8 changes?

Postby gamer4616 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:20 pm

Starting Feb 26, new schedules take effect. Track 18 will be out of service in Penn. One thing that jumped out to me is train 164 will be cancelled and 2742 will now operate in its place and run as a Dual Mode from Penn to Speonk. 164 normally connects will 2742 at Babylon.

164 is normally a very busy 12 car train (in the top 10 busiest trains leaving Penn), and is now going to run as an 8 car dual mode. I believe this will be the only diesel make a Woodside stop.


This will now give 2710 only 6 cars on its Friday run to Montauk.
gamer4616
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:49 pm

Re: What's the logic behind some of the Jan.8 changes?

Postby 452 Card » Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:18 pm

L.I.R.R. : Logic Is Rarely Required
Wheelslip! Back to the Barn.
MOTEL
452 Card
 
Posts: 313
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 8:25 am

Re: What's the logic behind some of the Jan.8 changes?

Postby adamj023 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:07 pm

gamer4616 wrote:Starting Feb 26, new schedules take effect. Track 18 will be out of service in Penn. One thing that jumped out to me is train 164 will be cancelled and 2742 will now operate in its place and run as a Dual Mode from Penn to Speonk. 164 normally connects will 2742 at Babylon.

164 is normally a very busy 12 car train (in the top 10 busiest trains leaving Penn), and is now going to run as an 8 car dual mode. I believe this will be the only diesel make a Woodside stop.


This will now give 2710 only 6 cars on its Friday run to Montauk.


On Feb 26th there are no additional tracks out of service as previous track will be completed and put back into service which was also an LIRR track. Im not sure how LIRR decides which trains to change however for service due to a different track being out as it would depend on which train is accessible to the tracks combined with orher factors.

I would think Amtrak still has more work after this project is finished but this project along with the previous one seems to have helped reliability of the system. Amtrak seems to be giving progress reports on the current phase of work.
adamj023
 
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:03 am

Re: What's the logic behind some of the Jan.8 changes?

Postby Andrew Saucci » Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:11 pm

It isn't just a matter of what specific runs are least necessary. Perhaps a run to Freeport turns, goes back to Penn Station, and becomes one of the critical Main Line runs later. Any run that is eliminated has a ripple effect on the things that went before it and the things after it with that equipment. If they cancel a train with 12 cars, they may need to replace it later in the morning or evening with another 12-car train; if the only ones available at a given time are 8 cars, and people would be riding on the roof, that won't work. It also has to do with what tracks are available in Penn and where the runs have to go. One run may be an express to Jamaica that needs to go through Line 3 for some reason; not all the tracks can access all of the tunnels. Canceled runs also affect scheduled connections at Jamaica. Finally, even if a train is cancelled at Penn, and it would only have deadheaded back to Penn anyway, there may not be space in the yard for it there or an easy way to get it into or out of the yard at the time it would be next needed-- or maybe it normally goes back to Atlantic Terminal and not Penn! It isn't as simple or logical as striking the least used runs from the schedule.

I live in Baldwin and work in Carle Place, so I am familiar with both the Main Line and Babylon lines. I hate the Main Line. Its schedules are pathetically inadequate-- but that is mostly a capacity problem that perhaps the third track will alleviate. Babylon line trains are more frequent and much less crowded than the Main Line cattle cars. The Babylon three-stops are designed to be combined when necessary, but even then they become cattle cars too. Still, I am sure that they do the best they can with what cards are handed to them when it comes to this sort of thing. The favoritism toward the Babylon line is the result of available capacity and not politics apart from the NIMBYism that stalled the third track until Gov. Cuomo took it under his wing. I suppose they could cut trains from the Babylon line just for the sake of making Babylon line riders suffer equally with Main Line riders even though the capacity and the equipment is available there, but that doesn't make sense either.

For a while, the 8:26 AM from Freeport was served by a diesel train. It wasn't because Freeport needed a diesel-- the diesel just happened to be available in Penn from another run and not needed elsewhere right away, so it was sent back to Freeport. On the face of it, that was completely illogical too, but I wasn't about to complain as long as it got me to Penn Station when I needed to be there.

To pursue this further, one would have to analyze the schedules to see what trains become other trains later in the day, and what would happen if a given run is eliminated. The logic is probably there but not apparent from the individual line schedules by themselves.
Andrew Saucci
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:57 pm

Re: What's the logic behind some of the Jan.8 changes?

Postby adamj023 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:57 pm

Andrew Saucci wrote:It isn't just a matter of what specific runs are least necessary. Perhaps a run to Freeport turns, goes back to Penn Station, and becomes one of the critical Main Line runs later. Any run that is eliminated has a ripple effect on the things that went before it and the things after it with that equipment. If they cancel a train with 12 cars, they may need to replace it later in the morning or evening with another 12-car train; if the only ones available at a given time are 8 cars, and people would be riding on the roof, that won't work. It also has to do with what tracks are available in Penn and where the runs have to go. One run may be an express to Jamaica that needs to go through Line 3 for some reason; not all the tracks can access all of the tunnels. Canceled runs also affect scheduled connections at Jamaica. Finally, even if a train is cancelled at Penn, and it would only have deadheaded back to Penn anyway, there may not be space in the yard for it there or an easy way to get it into or out of the yard at the time it would be next needed-- or maybe it normally goes back to Atlantic Terminal and not Penn! It isn't as simple or logical as striking the least used runs from the schedule.

I live in Baldwin and work in Carle Place, so I am familiar with both the Main Line and Babylon lines. I hate the Main Line. Its schedules are pathetically inadequate-- but that is mostly a capacity problem that perhaps the third track will alleviate. Babylon line trains are more frequent and much less crowded than the Main Line cattle cars. The Babylon three-stops are designed to be combined when necessary, but even then they become cattle cars too. Still, I am sure that they do the best they can with what cards are handed to them when it comes to this sort of thing. The favoritism toward the Babylon line is the result of available capacity and not politics apart from the NIMBYism that stalled the third track until Gov. Cuomo took it under his wing. I suppose they could cut trains from the Babylon line just for the sake of making Babylon line riders suffer equally with Main Line riders even though the capacity and the equipment is available there, but that doesn't make sense either.

For a while, the 8:26 AM from Freeport was served by a diesel train. It wasn't because Freeport needed a diesel-- the diesel just happened to be available in Penn from another run and not needed elsewhere right away, so it was sent back to Freeport. On the face of it, that was completely illogical too, but I wasn't about to complain as long as it got me to Penn Station when I needed to be there.

To pursue this further, one would have to analyze the schedules to see what trains become other trains later in the day, and what would happen if a given run is eliminated. The logic is probably there but not apparent from the individual line schedules by themselves.


The M9/M9A trains will be ready to start testing soon then delivery so more.train sets will become available. M9/M9A i presume are all electric. The C3 is dual mode electric and diesel. I am not aware of other train cars that can run on diesel except for the leased MARC train cars.

LIRR changes seem to be routine. Positive Train Control work is going on, as well as the double track project, routine track work at times and Amtrak work for the most part.
adamj023
 
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:03 am

Re: What's the logic behind some of the Jan.8 changes?

Postby Amtrak7 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:26 pm

gamer4616 wrote:This will now give 2710 only 6 cars on its Friday run to Montauk.


It usually doesn't happen, but per the normal scheduled manipulations the off season 2710 is a 5 car train.
Amtrak7
 
Posts: 2187
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 4:39 pm
Location: Long Island / Pittsburgh


Return to Long Island Rail Road (LIRR)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests