Location of Platform Signs

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Location of Platform Signs

Postby MattAmity90 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:10 pm

I've noticed in photos taken at Babylon and Massapequa back in the 80's that the station platform signs that display the name used to hang from the canopies. Obviously, they do not anymore because it was difficult for commuters to see them by looking up, plus poor lighting. Now on grade level stations they are located on the platform railing, light poles, or below billboards. But in the past they were put onto two steel poles above the platform railing. On elevated stations they are now on either billboards, light poles, or on side of stairwells and elevators except at Hunterspoint Avenue and Flatbush/Atlantic Terminal. I'm pretty sure where I'm going with this, but when did they make those changes? Were there any other elevated stations that had their signs hanging from their canopies?
This station is Babylon, this is the train to Penn Station. Stopping at: Lindenhurst, Copiague, Amityville, Massapequa Park, Massapequa, Seaford, Wantagh, Bellmore, Merrick, Freeport, Baldwin, Rockville Centre, Lynbrook, Valley Stream, Jamaica, Kew Gardens, Forest Hills, Woodside, Penn Station.
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Re: Location of Platform Signs

Postby JamesRR » Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:11 am

Even in the 80s, elevated stations had signs on stairwell walls. And it's been common practice for decades to put them on railings, light poles, stairwells, etc.
I think in the late 80s, or early 90s additional signage was added to the opposite side of the platforms, via poles, so passengers not sitting platform-side would see the station names. These signs were smaller than the ones installed on platforms.
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Re: Location of Platform Signs

Postby MattAmity90 » Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:35 pm

I know the smaller signs were put up for that reason, but when did they take down the signs that were hanging off the canopies? Here's the two examples:

19437230_10209402806895399_7183172721567594887_n.jpg
Babylon train derailment on 8/24/1984, the platform sign is hanging from the canopy.
47516_1379235289196_1477463_n.jpg
Mineola 1988, that sign is on two vertical poles, not on the rails.
This station is Babylon, this is the train to Penn Station. Stopping at: Lindenhurst, Copiague, Amityville, Massapequa Park, Massapequa, Seaford, Wantagh, Bellmore, Merrick, Freeport, Baldwin, Rockville Centre, Lynbrook, Valley Stream, Jamaica, Kew Gardens, Forest Hills, Woodside, Penn Station.
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Re: Location of Platform Signs

Postby newkirk » Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:38 pm

What was the date of the Babylon wreck ?

I heard the car was scrapped on site.
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Re: Location of Platform Signs

Postby MattAmity90 » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:48 am

newkirk wrote:What was the date of the Babylon wreck ?

I heard the car was scrapped on site.


August 24th, 1984.

As for the Mineola photo, that was taken in 1988.
This station is Babylon, this is the train to Penn Station. Stopping at: Lindenhurst, Copiague, Amityville, Massapequa Park, Massapequa, Seaford, Wantagh, Bellmore, Merrick, Freeport, Baldwin, Rockville Centre, Lynbrook, Valley Stream, Jamaica, Kew Gardens, Forest Hills, Woodside, Penn Station.
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Re: Location of Platform Signs

Postby JamesRR » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:14 pm

Both of those signs are the old black and white versions dating back to the 70s I believe. In the early 90s, they began replacing them with the newer versions, with blue strips atop instead of black. Perhaps that's when the positions changed, when the signage replacement program began.
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Re: Location of Platform Signs

Postby MattAmity90 » Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:55 am

I still remember Amityville's, Massapequa Park's, and Massapequa's platform signs still hanging from their canopies in the mid to late-90's even after the sign stripe went from black to MTA blue. The current format of the sign was introduced in the 1976-1977 with a black stripe because when Massapequa Park began elevation, its' temporary station had the current signs with the black stripe. As for the grade level stations on the two poles, I can agree with you on that they were taken down when the blue replaced the black some time in the 90's and placed on the platform railing. In the photo at Babylon, that is car 9625 that was scrapped, as it was bent in ways unimaginable and had peeled the Western end of Platform A almost like a banana. The stairwell was railing, and was replaced by enclosing around it using concrete or brick.
This station is Babylon, this is the train to Penn Station. Stopping at: Lindenhurst, Copiague, Amityville, Massapequa Park, Massapequa, Seaford, Wantagh, Bellmore, Merrick, Freeport, Baldwin, Rockville Centre, Lynbrook, Valley Stream, Jamaica, Kew Gardens, Forest Hills, Woodside, Penn Station.
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Re: Location of Platform Signs

Postby newkirk » Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:31 pm

MattAmity90 wrote: "In the photo at Babylon, that is car 9625 that was scrapped, as it was bent in ways unimaginable and had peeled the Western end of Platform A almost like a banana. The stairwell was railing, and was replaced by enclosing around it using concrete or brick."

A friend of mine was a usher at Babylon. I don't know if he was there to see wreck or heard it from an employee, but after the M-1 was cut up on site, they rolled it down the embankment where it was loaded on a flatbed truck. He said it sounded like an enormous beer can rolling down the embankment !

Was this method of removing the wrecked car fact ?
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Re: Location of Platform Signs

Postby MattAmity90 » Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:01 pm

newkirk wrote:MattAmity90 wrote: "In the photo at Babylon, that is car 9625 that was scrapped, as it was bent in ways unimaginable and had peeled the Western end of Platform A almost like a banana. The stairwell was railing, and was replaced by enclosing around it using concrete or brick."

A friend of mine was a usher at Babylon. I don't know if he was there to see wreck or heard it from an employee, but after the M-1 was cut up on site, they rolled it down the embankment where it was loaded on a flatbed truck. He said it sounded like an enormous beer can rolling down the embankment !

Was this method of removing the wrecked car fact ?


Well the train had to be cut up because it was not only stuck in the platform, but from the angle it was hanging off the viaduct, so I would say that the half that was pointing up was rolled down the banking onto something, while the other half was loaded onto a flatbed train. That is not the way of removing a wrecked car by any means because usually it would have just rolled down the embankment, and the power lines were lucky too for not getting hit! Usually accidents like that happen at grade level.
This station is Babylon, this is the train to Penn Station. Stopping at: Lindenhurst, Copiague, Amityville, Massapequa Park, Massapequa, Seaford, Wantagh, Bellmore, Merrick, Freeport, Baldwin, Rockville Centre, Lynbrook, Valley Stream, Jamaica, Kew Gardens, Forest Hills, Woodside, Penn Station.
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Re: Location of Platform Signs

Postby workextra » Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:03 am

Two possible justifications for the current signs being placed lower and not hanging from the canopies anymore could be

1) wine seated on a passing trains the lower signs would be better visible to the astute passenger who can read them and figure out where they are as this was done in an era when announcements were not automated and may or may not have been audible by all. This also includes the ADA accommodations.

2) simple, safer, and easier installation for all the signs and for any future maintenance or replacement. No ladders less liability. A classic safe a penny spending a dollar ideology.

Other other then what's stated above. The merger Fantasy of "MTA RAIL" could have lead to the signs being all standard placed MTA wide on LI/MN/NYCT?
The merger that is still happening though very quietly behind the scenes. And is part of the reasoning why Brent to KO opening is delayed. As they try to force Metro North's signals on to the LIRR.
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