NYP work shift trains to Atlantic Term?

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NYP work shift trains to Atlantic Term?

Postby hrfcarl » Thu May 11, 2017 4:17 pm

If Amtrak needed to completely shut down 1 or 2 East River Tunnel and some tracks at NYP per month to make necessary repairs/upgrades faster, how many trains that would normally go to NYP could LIRR shift to Atlantic Terminal as an option to try keeping the number of trains terminating at Jamaica to a minimum?

Doubt it would not happen, especially with its shorter platforms, but what could Atlantic Terminal handle?
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Re: NYP work shift trains to Atlantic Term?

Postby Backshophoss » Thu May 11, 2017 6:08 pm

There will be diversions to Atlantic Term(Flatbush Ave) and Hunterspoint Ave,along with a bunch of "Turn n' Burn" Deadhead moves back
to Jamaica and Hillside Yards to clear the station tracks at both stations
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Re: NYP work shift trains to Atlantic Term?

Postby Crabman1130 » Thu May 11, 2017 10:50 pm

Could the Lower Montauk be used to run to LIC?
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Re: NYP work shift trains to Atlantic Term?

Postby Backshophoss » Thu May 11, 2017 11:33 pm

The lower Montauk is now considered a Secondary Track,is under control of the NY&A,no longer has signals(all the automatics were retired,
allowed to rust away in peace)Bliss was "retired" as well,and included the C Secondary, Bliss to the LIC yard limits.
Also the Montauk Cutoff(Both tracks) has been abandoned from the Drawbridge to the remains of yard "A",as is the Freight cutoff to Mainline 1(F tower)
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Re: NYP work shift trains to Atlantic Term?

Postby pineywoodsman » Fri May 12, 2017 12:01 am

I hope they shift more trains to Atlantic or Hunterspoint, or even Jamaica instead of cancelling them outright. On most branches except for the Babylon most rush hour trains are already fairly full. By diverting to Atlantic it gives an option of at least connecting at Jamaica or taking the subway to/from Atlantic. The only trains that should be combined are the three stop flyers on the Babylon Branch which were designed to be combined anyway. After having seen those trains several times without standees I can see them being combined during this project.
If trains on the other branches do wind up having to be cancelled, they should add stops on Atlantic Trains. Unlike the Babylon Branch which gets regular direct rush hour service from Atlantic my station in Westbury doesn't have much direct Atlantic service at all. We get one train in the morning (7:42am) and two in the evening(5:15pm & 6:05pm), compare that to Bellmore which sees 5 trains to Atlantic in the AM and 6 in the PM (they're so spoiled :P ) I think the Atlantic trains that pass thru here without stopping should stop. On the Babylon most Atlantic trains are locals (the expresses from Penn) and I think it needs to be that way here too when the work is being done.
The LIRR needs to do their best to encourage commuters to use Atlantic, Hunterspoint, or LIC as alternatives to Penn during this work instead of just taking the easy way out by cancelling trains.
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

— Benjamin Franklin
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Re: NYP work shift trains to Atlantic Term?

Postby Teutobergerwald » Fri May 12, 2017 7:39 am

Yet another example of the LIRR's short-sightedness with the downgrading of the Lower Montauk and deactivation of its signals, and the abandonment of the Cut-Off legs.
Searching for the eagles of the XVII,XVIII & XIX Legions in Germania.
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how many additional trains can be diverted?

Postby hrfcarl » Fri May 12, 2017 3:33 pm

OK, but how many additional trains can AT handle, especially during rush hour?
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Re: NYP work shift trains to Atlantic Term?

Postby SwingMan » Sat May 13, 2017 5:03 pm

Very limited. The current setup to Brooklyn is difficult due to slow speed, train length limitations, and yard moves. Right now, things are setup so that certain trains use certain tracks. The consists of these trains have to match the platform lengths appropriately. For example, train 39 will typically get 10 cars, the maximum length for a train going into Atlantic Terminal. Only tracks 1 and 2 can fit 10 cars, thus you have to make sure there is appropriate track space.


Yard moves to VD Yard are also an important factor. They are essential to operation, and take up a good chunk of "open" track time. There are roughly a handful of moves into and out of VD Yard. Although the proximity of the yard physically is not far, the move into the yard takes up roughly one 10-20 minute slot on the main. This is due to the necessity of a reverse move to enter the yard leads. This limits how many trains can turn back east while these moves take place
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Re: NYP work shift trains to Atlantic Term?

Postby hrfcarl » Fri May 19, 2017 9:36 am

SwingMan wrote:Yard moves to VD Yard are also an important factor. They are essential to operation, and take up a good chunk of "open" track time. There are roughly a handful of moves into and out of VD Yard. Although the proximity of the yard physically is not far, the move into the yard takes up roughly one 10-20 minute slot on the main. This is due to the necessity of a reverse move to enter the yard leads. This limits how many trains can turn back east while these moves take place


Is that what the work just east of the terminal supposed to fix? If yes, when is that work supposed to finish (know not in time for upcoming NYP closures)?
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Re: NYP work shift trains to Atlantic Term?

Postby dstoffa » Tue May 23, 2017 10:02 am

hrfcarl wrote:If Amtrak needed to completely shut down 1 or 2 East River Tunnel and some tracks at NYP per month to make necessary repairs/upgrades faster, how many trains that would normally go to NYP could LIRR shift to Atlantic Terminal as an option to try keeping the number of trains terminating at Jamaica to a minimum?

Doubt it would not happen, especially with its shorter platforms, but what could Atlantic Terminal handle?


You not only need to worry about LIRR in and out of AT, but what are the people who de-train there going to ride the rest of the way? How crowded (or over-crowded) are the subway trains by the time they get to AT / DeKalb? I imagine that must also be a limiting factor. There simply might not be enough subway to move many additional passengers.
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Re: NYP work shift trains to Atlantic Term?

Postby KT3 » Tue May 23, 2017 2:37 pm

The subway lines that make stops at Barclays Center / Atlantic terminal aren't as crowded as one might think. I used to ride the LIRR into Atlantic Terminal every day and take the 2/3 into the Financial District. Never had any problem with the subway going into the city or leaving after work, other than the usual NYC subway issues of delays and increasingly poor service. It does seem like Atlantic Terminal is a chronically underutilized facility for the LIRR that could help alleviate some of the strain on the LIRR system, particularly during this summer's upcoming Amtrak-related issues. But the LIRR doesn't seem to have much inclination to make Atlantic Terminal little more than a somewhat forgotten cousin of Penn Station.
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