"19" orders

Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.

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Re: "19" orders

Postby philipmartin » Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:43 am

nyandw wrote:George Chiasson, Jr.'s work is extensive to say the least. More to come from him and I'll advise when it's posted! :-)

Thank you. I'll appreciate it.
When I worked Penn Station in 1957-58 the LIRR was trying hard to overcome a bad reputation the media had given it. For instance, when a LIRR train went up the wrong branch, it resulted in a lot of adverse publicity. So if a misroute in Penn Station caused a delay to a LIRR train, our division operator had to give the LIRR a detailed explanation. But that was it as far as tower personnel were concerned, except for normal discipline. So I got a surprise a few years later when I was again in C and a LIRR trainmaster joined us for the morning rush hour. Apparently that was the practice by that time.
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Re: "19" orders

Postby gamer4616 » Tue Dec 27, 2016 5:57 pm

Amtrak7 wrote:How often are "A" cards used today? I know that in order to operate in manual block territory, a train needs a K-card, but does every one need an A card too?



A train does not need a K Card to operate in manual block territory. The primary function of the K-card is to pass one or more block limit signals as though a clear block signal were displayed. So if we take a train such as 252 that operates between Ronkonkoma and Yaphank, the train does not pass any block limit signals. It does not receive a K-card. K-cards would only be issued in single track territory with rule 251 in effect. As of now, that is between Speonk-Montauk and Ronkonkoma-Greenport. There is scheduled track work for SK to MY Signalization Cutover November 11th and 12th, 2017. It would appear that is going to be 261 territory. I don't see any signal related track work for 2017 listed for Ronkonkoma-Greenport stretch.


As far as A-cards. The primary function is to represent superior opposing regular trains due in the past 12 hours. This is basically telling you that any scheduled train heading in the opposite direction that are superior in the last 12 hours has arrived. For example, all westbound trains in Montauk and Greenport will receieve an A-card to indicate that all scheduled eastbound trains in the past 12 hours have arrived. Generally, eastbound trains are superior and would not receive an A-card. There are situations where an Eastbound train would receive an A-card, such as an eastbound extra train would be inferior to a westbound regular train. Or if a note in the timetable or general notice specified a westbound is superior to an eastbound.


A train operating in single track with rule 251 would need to satisfy four things:

1) Condition of the manual block - The train needs a clear block. This could be via a K-card, Fixed signal, Train order, Verbally from Block operator, or a block operator displays a green flag/green light (under certain situations).

2) Representation - Represent superior opposing regular trains due in the past 12 hours. Generally done via A-card, but there are situations where you would represent using other methods.

3) Authority - Your authority is your schedule, or a train order if you are an extra.

4) Permission - Verbal permission from the block operator is needed to enter the main track.
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Re: "19" orders

Postby DaveBarraza » Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:38 pm

Thanks very much, Gamer.

As you say "Authority" is the timetable for regular trains. I'm confused about how you "know" which schedule in the timetable is "yours". Is there some step where *this engine* or *this crew* is going to be using the schedule of 2701 on *this day* ? I've seen it written in generic documents that an A card is *one* way to do that.
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Re: "19" orders

Postby DaveBarraza » Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:40 pm

Aha,

1) C ondition
2) R epresentation
3) A uthority
4) P ermission

Nice mnemonic, btw. remember to do that before departure? 8-D
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Re: "19" orders

Postby gamer4616 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:25 pm

DaveBarraza wrote:Thanks very much, Gamer.

I'm confused about how you "know" which schedule in the timetable is "yours". Is there some step where *this engine* or *this crew* is going to be using the schedule of 2701 on *this day* ?



The crew book issued by the carrier will determine what crews are scheduled to operate each train. This can be changed at the discretion of the railroad depending on operational conditions. The crew book will say for example crew 56 will operate train 2704 to Montauk Mon-Fri. There could be a situation where even though crew 56 is scheduled to operate train 2704, another crew operates that train due to delays/cancellations, etc...
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Re: "19" orders at PD

Postby nyandw » Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:27 pm

Back to phillipmartin's OP: Here are some Form 19s concerning Steam #35 and #39 via PD Tower:

http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/Steam%2035%20and%2039/Steam35and39.htm
NEW PAGE LIRR G5s #35 and #39 01/01/2017

Image
Form 19 Train order #44 to Extra 31 2:06pm 1/20/45 PD Tower Loco 39

"Block occupied Extra #31 east. Proceed under Stop Block Signal at PD to a point about 1 mile east of PD to assist Pass Extra 39 west to PD"
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Re: "19" orders

Postby nyandw » Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Manorville Form 19s as issued from PD Tower: http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/manorville/manorville.htm

Image
Wartime train order issued at "PD" tower, addressed to westbound train #55. PRR-leased K4s #5387 is ordered to run extra from "Y" cabin (end of double track east of Sayville) to one train length east of "PT" (Eastport) to allow it to clear the switch, where it's to make a reverse move and run extra westbound up the Manorville-Eastport branch to the junction on the Main Line where it will then continue westbound to the Camp Upton branch east of Yaphank. Obviously a troop-train move. Order made complete by block operator Gafney. Archive/Research: Dave Keller
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