Rockaway Beach Line Reactivation One-Seat Ride to JFK

Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.

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Re: Mile post on the Rockaway Beach line.

Postby condr » Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:06 pm

I am guessing, but it could be from the old Rockaway branch> :wink:
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Re: Mile post on the Rockaway Beach line.

Postby keyboardkat » Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:32 pm

Bring back the LIRR Rockaway Beach Branch as it used to was! Imagine M7s on the elevated Rockaway lines or on the Jamaica Bay trestle!
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Re: Mile post on the Rockaway Beach line.

Postby spidey3 » Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:22 pm

Wouldn't that entail cutting back a bunch of platforms? I think NYCTA B Division loading gauge is 10', while LIRR is 10' 8"...
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Re: Mile post on the Rockaway Beach line.

Postby keyboardkat » Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:51 pm

The elevated structure on the Rockaway Peninsula was built by the LIRR during the 1940s. Until 1956, these stations were served by LIRR MU trains. The stations were designed for easy conversion to rapid transit use (read turnstile access to fully-fenced platforms). But as far as I know, the platforms are as they were built, but now in use by subway rolling stock.
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Re: Mile post on the Rockaway Beach line.

Postby workextra » Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:12 pm

They wanted rapid transit so bad, they sure got it, in addition too all the rift raft that came with it.
I bet the Rockaway Beach branch today would have been a big player in getting people in south eastern Queens into Manhattan on a fast route. and providing it was all LIRR the air-train would have never needed to connect to Jamaica but rather to it's existing Howard Beach station. All eastward passengers would change at Wood haven and if necessary at Jamaica for other points east.
I do wonder at times if the Rockaways would have become all run down and into a slum in the 60's had LIRR held down the service?
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Re: Mile post on the Rockaway Beach line.

Postby diffusedmind » Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:16 pm

workextra wrote:They wanted rapid transit so bad, they sure got it, in addition too all the rift raft that came with it.


Haha, they aren't kidding when they say "mugger mover".
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Re: Mile post on the Rockaway Beach line.

Postby spidey3 » Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:04 am

keyboardkat wrote:But as far as I know, the platforms are as they were built, but now in use by subway rolling stock.

Doesn't that mean an extra 4" gap to the platform at present?
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Re: Mile post on the Rockaway Beach line.

Postby spidey3 » Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:10 am

workextra wrote:I do wonder at times if the Rockaways would have become all run down and into a slum in the 60's had LIRR held down the service?

Decline of the Rockaways [like Coney Island, Asbury Park, etc.] had a lot more to do with increasing personal mobility due to automobiles and inexpensive airflight than any change in the local transit system. As it became less expensive [relative to wages] to travel farther, the middle class started going much farther afield rather than visiting nearby beach communities.
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Re: Mile post on the Rockaway Beach line.

Postby workextra » Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:12 pm

Providing the state (whomever) did not block out the plan to build a casino on the Rockaway peninsular, The Rockaways could have been New Yorks version of A.C. in South Jersey.
Does anyone know more on this side of the spectrum?

Providing the LIRR still ran the service, Would the line between Valley Stream and Far Rockaway been removed and passengers would have to drive to Valley Stream on Far Rockaway? Or would the lines have been connected till today and some form of loop service provided?
Penn-Brooklyn via Far Rockaway?
Brooklyn-Rockaway Park?
Ect...
Knowing that most queens residents use the bus and subway for it is cheaper, Does anyone here think that if LIRR still operated the branch today if ridership would be reasonable to provide half hour-hourly service?
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Re: Mile post on the Rockaway Beach line.

Postby northpit » Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:33 pm

it wouldnt be to difficult to reconnect the branch,row is still there.it would be possible to connect the mainline at rego park to the lower montaukand atlantic branch at woodhaven.also far rock lirr stat. is roughly one block away from far rock subway stat.a short viaduct would reconnect the two,while im dreaming might as well reestablish the west hempstead-c l press connection, might get some cars off the road, funny how when all this existed for real,there was probably one tenth the population that there is now,i dont see how this would not be successful
put it on the north pit
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Re: Mile post on the Rockaway Beach line.

Postby workextra » Fri Sep 03, 2010 11:12 pm

It would be very interesting to see how the Mineola-West Hempstead connection in addition to the Far Rockaway loop would have served today, At a time when it's use makes more sense then when it was built.
Instead of wasting money on useless study after study, Why not waste the money on studying how these links would help the areas in which they serve? Providing such train service many or may not be able to cut duplicate bus routes and add bus routes to areas better served by the bus?
When it was built I tend to believe that it was just a line connecting one population center to the next. many of the towns were small hamlets and villages along the route.
One benefit the Rockaway Line being re connected today would be to no longer have lay overs in Far Rockaway, all trains would just pass through. the Current station at Far Rockaway would be closed and Mott ave re named Far Rockaway.
But we can only dream. It would definitely change some commuting pattern.
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Re: Mile post on the Rockaway Beach line.

Postby keyboardkat » Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:38 pm

northpit wrote:it wouldnt be to difficult to reconnect the branch,row is still there.it would be possible to connect the mainline at rego park to the lower montaukand atlantic branch at woodhaven.also far rock lirr stat. is roughly one block away from far rock subway stat.a short viaduct would reconnect the two,while im dreaming might as well reestablish the west hempstead-c l press connection, might get some cars off the road, funny how when all this existed for real,there was probably one tenth the population that there is now,i dont see how this would not be successful


Unfortunately, there's a shopping center now in between the LIRR Far Rock station and the subway terminal at Mott Avenue, where the yard and ramp up to the elevated structure used to be. But if you have the necessary multiple millions of dollars it would take to buy out the shopping center owners as well as all the retail tenants, plus funding the demolition of the terminal buildings and construction of the rail connection, then maybe it's a go! (And while you're writing checks, I could use some, too). :-D
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Re: Mile post on the Rockaway Beach line.

Postby northpit » Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:54 pm

are you kidding me? nothing in far rock cost millions
put it on the north pit
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Re: Mile post on the Rockaway Beach line.

Postby workextra » Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:48 am

The construction/demolition and the EIS studies will cost more then the the overall land grab.
Ideally if the LIRR were to take it back, then they smart move would be to keep Make Far Rockaway a station (Mott Ave) and do away with the current yard and station facilities. Rebuilding the cutoff to the Atlantic branch means all Far Rock trains would be able to loop and start and finish in Atlantic Term, and maybe GCT in due time.
This would create major havoc for some to see their precious motors operating with the (odd number) on the east end.
But since NYCT just lunched a rehabilitation project on that section of the A train, I guess LIRR control is out of the question for now.
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Re: Mile post on the Rockaway Beach line.

Postby newkirk » Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:30 pm

While looking out the window on the A train heading north bound (Brooklyn bound) leaving North Conduit/Aqueduct, I spotted a LIRR milepost on the west side of the tracks a bit north of the Rockaway bound platform. It sure does look like a LIRR Milepost with the number 10 on it, judging by the distance from Ozone Park which was MP 9. Milepost looks 4 sided with a point on top.

Some years ago, I could have sworn I saw a milepost marker on the elevated NYCT Far Rockaway line heading towards Far Rock. This was a station or two past Hammels Wye.

A recent trip peering out the front window of an R-32 (A) train in both directions, did not bear any milepost marker so I assume it was removed.

Were you aware of that one ?
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