Rockaway Beach Line Reactivation One-Seat Ride to JFK

Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.

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Re: Mile post on the Rockaway Beach line.

Postby krispy » Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:58 pm

Remember, the 3 MP 9's you see in Jamaica, govern different branches, Montauk, Mainline and Atlantic. It's interesting how the mileage comes together that closely at that point despite having different starting points...
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Re: Mile post on the Rockaway Beach line.

Postby newkirk » Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:41 am

There were at least TWO mileposts left on the elevated in recent years. I photographed MP16, neat Beach 90th St, several years ago. I saw another one somewhere between Hammels and Far Rockaway but have not gotten around to photographing that one.

Thank you, that's exactly what I was talking about.

Wonder if they're stil there ?
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Re: Mile post on the Rockaway Beach line.

Postby ramah69 » Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:50 pm

I was born in Far Rockaway in 1954. I didn't take my 1st "A" Train ride until 1966 . Since we also had the LIRR back then I had no idea that before the "MTA brought the line it was LIRR service out to the Rockaways.
When the MTA brought the Line from LIRR (due to the frequent fires on the Jamaica Bay Trestle), they rebuilt it using Concrete & metal (instead of the wooden). They then charged double fare when you went past Broad Channel Stop to pay for the Trestle. The problem was I heard that we the Rockaway Residents kept on paying for years way past the cost to re-built the Trestle. I also read that before the Big Fire on the Jamaica Bay Trestle in May 1950
they were trying to have it fixed since it was over 75 years old and needed repairs. If the LIRR never sold it to the MTA (TA back then) then we would have had (2) Railroad services to Far Rockaways? At least know they have (2) choices to the City , A cheap fare ride & expensive ride.

PS I moved out in 1973 but from 1973 to 1983 I would take on weekends the Subway in the mornings and the LIRR late at night home
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Re: platforms on Rockaway Beach line.

Postby timz » Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:29 pm

spidey3 wrote:
keyboardkat wrote:Bring back the LIRR Rockaway Beach Branch as it used to was! Imagine M7s on the elevated Rockaway lines or on the Jamaica Bay trestle!


Wouldn't that entail cutting back a bunch of platforms? I think NYCTA B Division loading gauge is 10', while LIRR is 10' 8"...


No idea about the subway cars, but LIRR cars (and everybody else's suburban passenger cars) are 10-0 wide at platform level. They bulge out at armrest level.
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Re: platforms on Rockaway Beach line.

Postby darthdoosh » Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:52 pm

http://images.nycsubway.org/cars/datasheet-r46.jpg

The R44-46 are 10'0" width, and the R32s are just a smidge wider than 10' I believe. If the LIRR cars are the same, there should be no problem with hypothetical width compatibility on former LIRR trackage. On a personal note, I've always thought of the R-44/R-46 as kind of the "little brother" to the M1/M3, haha. (purely based on aesthetics, obviously)
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Re: Mile post on the Rockaway Beach line.

Postby Robert Paniagua » Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:43 am

Maybe they should restore LIRR to the Rockaways especially Rockaway Park and maybe extend it to Breezy point, that would really be good, but it would require a new EL Right of Way over Beach Channel Drive
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Re: Mile post on the Rockaway Beach line.

Postby keyboardkat » Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:39 pm

ramah69 wrote:I was born in Far Rockaway in 1954. I didn't take my 1st "A" Train ride until 1966 . Since we also had the LIRR back then I had no idea that before the "MTA brought the line it was LIRR service out to the Rockaways.
When the MTA brought the Line from LIRR (due to the frequent fires on the Jamaica Bay Trestle), they rebuilt it using Concrete & metal (instead of the wooden). They then charged double fare when you went past Broad Channel Stop to pay for the Trestle. The problem was I heard that we the Rockaway Residents kept on paying for years way past the cost to re-built the Trestle. I also read that before the Big Fire on the Jamaica Bay Trestle in May 1950
they were trying to have it fixed since it was over 75 years old and needed repairs. If the LIRR never sold it to the MTA (TA back then) then we would have had (2) Railroad services to Far Rockaways? At least know they have (2) choices to the City , A cheap fare ride & expensive ride.

PS I moved out in 1973 but from 1973 to 1983 I would take on weekends the Subway in the mornings and the LIRR late at night home

No, you would have had one railroad service to Far Rockaway. Before the TA takeover, the elevated portion beginning at Mott Avenue, and the LIRR two blocks away at ground level, were connected by a grade on a fill. There was loop service, with some trains from either NYPenn or Flatbush Avenue crossing the trestle and heading east to Far Rockaway, continuing up (today's) Far Rock. branch, and using the Valley Stream exit to get onto the Atlantic Branch and back to Jamaica. Other loop trains did the same trip in the reverse direction. Plus direct service from both city terminals to Rockaway Park. And passengers could transfer to and from the Atlantic Branch to the Rockaway Beach branch at Woodhaven Junction, to connect with the rest of Long Island. It was a faster and more efficient and much more versatile service than exists to today, with three stub-end branches operated by two different railroad managements, albeit now under the same state MTA umbrella.
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Rockaway Beach Line Reactivation

Postby Jeff Smith » Fri Mar 18, 2016 2:34 pm

http://qns.com/story/2016/03/15/rockawa ... -proposal/

Rockaway Beach line reactivation feasibility study is included in the Assembly budget proposal

Queens’ Rockaway Beach line took a “huge step” toward reactivation on Tuesday when Assemblyman Phil Goldfeder announced that this year’s Assembly one-house budget proposal will include millions of dollars for a feasibility study of the line.

Many transit advocates across the “World’s Borough” have been fighting to get the Rockaway Beach line up and running again, providing service from the Rockaways and southern Queens to areas such as Rego Park and the rest of the city on the Long Island Rail Road (LIRR) that hasn’t been seen since the route stopped operating in 1962.
...
Goldfeder expects the MTA to assess the current condition of infrastructure along the 4 miles of tracks, as well as the full cost of reactivating it for passenger service. He also hopes the study will contain the benefits of reactivation, including potential ridership and the economic benefits to the surrounding communities.
...
...“An important question that should be asked is how we can connect this rail line to the current Long Island Rail Road service already on Atlantic Avenue. I would hope that in the process the study takes into account all factors, especially homeowners who live next to the rail line. We must ensure that quality of life is maintained for all members of the community.”
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Re: Rockaway Beach Line Reactivation

Postby NIMBYkiller » Fri Mar 18, 2016 3:51 pm

So am I to understand they are trying to placate the NIMBYs by hinting that they are only interested in a reactivation south of Atlantic Av? If so, this would seem quite silly in my opinion.
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Re: Rockaway Beach Line Reactivation

Postby Backshophoss » Fri Mar 18, 2016 8:16 pm

Reopened as commuter rail or as part of of the Subway system??
NYCTA is running on what was part of the LIRR already to the beach.
Orphan stub services will be a hard sell to MTA Capital Construction,untill ESA is online.
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Re: Rockaway Beach Line Reactivation

Postby Kelly&Kelly » Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:35 pm

When you see who got the contract you'll understand that this is just political pork for a privileged vendor. Don't expect to see anything run here except perhaps some rodents.
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Re: Rockaway Beach Line Reactivation

Postby NIMBYkiller » Sun Mar 20, 2016 10:42 pm

So this is just a bone to a regular client? Nothing is expected to come of it, just giving someone some money for their being a good partner? Shame :( The only way I could see this coming back as a LIRR service AND being worth while is a full takeover of the A south of Liberty Av, and the only way that would happen is if there was some sort of reduced city zone fare on it, and even then you'll have major backlash given much of Rockaway would have a hard time affording the higher fare.
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Re: Rockaway Beach Line Reactivation

Postby DogBert » Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:10 am

One very important thing to come of this is the potential to stop the 'queensway' park conversion.

In a nutshell, the governor has given taxpayer money to a politically connected do-nothing group ('trust for public land') to come up with designs for a park along the length of the ROW (from the 'A' subway junction to White Pot jct). They want to make it into 'the high line of queens'.

This has obviously pissed off a lot of people in the affected area, many of whom have up to 3 hour commute times per day due to limited transit options. They want their tracks back. Traffic along the woodhaven blvd corridor has also become pretty intense at times, adding more pressure to an already bad situation.

The trail advocates are belligerently anti-rail, while the potential riders are fed up with commute times that are frankly ridiculous given the proximity of these neighborhoods to Manhattan.

Once the ROW is gone to park conversion, it will never come back. Even if nothing comes of this study, it's still better than letting 'trust for public land' destroy what many feel is a rail corridor with big potential.
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Re: Rockaway Beach Line Reactivation

Postby whitepot46 » Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:51 am

I was aboard the last train to make the trip to Ozone Park on June 8, 1962. Two friends and I had planned on getting off at Parkside, but we stayed aboard to the end of the line when the champagne bottles were uncorked after coming through the Whitepot underjump. Now I hope that I will live long enough to ride the first train when the line is reactivated. The champagne is chilled and ready!
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Re: Rockaway Beach Line Reactivation

Postby MACTRAXX » Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:19 pm

Whitepot and Everyone:

Does anyone remember a MTA plan from the 1970s that would have used the abandoned segment of the Rockaway
Branch from Rego Park to construct a direct LIRR rail link to Kennedy Airport?

I always wondered why this was not attempted - was it NIMBY opposition along the closed route that ended this
proposed one seat ride from Manhattan?

From what is noted NIMBYs and BANANAs are looking to oppose any revival of closed parts of the Rockaway
Branch - in favor of a rail trail type park.

A one seat ride would have been preferable to the at least two seat Airtrain service but after years of delay that
finally was constructed and built back in the 2000s and is definitely better than having no rail alternative to JFK.

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