Garden City Secondary Industries Update/Current Status

Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.

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Garden City Secondary Industries Update/Current Status

Postby nyandw » Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:44 pm

Folks, Here's what I have gathered thus far. Revisions/updates?

Image
http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/lirrtrackmaps/Garden-City-Secondary-1966.jpg
LIRR 1966 Map................Became
30 E.A. Gillespie
31 Max Rosen Lumber
32 Oxford Filing...............Oxford Pendaflex in 1969 .....Esselte in 1976... FedEx
33 Newsday.....................Empty
34 LILCO........................LIPA/Nat Grid
35 A&P Team Track............Stewart Plaza parking lot 1990
36 Marta Coop.
37 Capital Warehouse.........Mattress shop and a small Professional building
38 Hampton Sales..............Hampton Sales
39 Team Tracks
40 General Bronze.............HQ of Computer Associates Retail Stores
41 Waldbaums..................Lowes
42 Blanchard Press.............Fortunoff's Outdoor store
43 Arma Corp...................Gallard & Schlesinger, .....Budenheim in 2005,..... AAR aircraft parts
44 AMF Corp....................AVIS....Cendant....Retail Center
45 Colonial Press
46 Continential Extrusion.....Dress Outlet.......Storage Facility (?)
47 Mitchell Air Force Base.....Abandoned
48 Hogan Industrial Supply
49 J.W. Walthers
50 NY Telephone
51 Lee Story....................Serivoli Foods?
52 Borus Bros. Paper Co.
53 Master Millwork
54 Garden City Paper Co.
55 Plowman Bros.
56 Lamparter Accustial Co.
57 Wimaco Co.
Last edited by nyandw on Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Garden City Secondary Industries Update/Current Ststus

Postby Backshophoss » Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:52 am

With the Nassau Coliseum under "repair",there's no Circus Train this year. :(
The NY&A has no operating rights on the Garden City Secondary due to some political deal to make the locals happy and quiet.
The rails will rust for a couple of years untill the Coliseum "reopens" for the circus.
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Re: Garden City Secondary Industries Update/Current Ststus

Postby Sir Ray » Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:06 am

Map Link is broken
OK, Continental Extrusion is, surprisingly, the printing plant for the Herald/Prime Time
General Bronze is now BJ's and LA FItness
Speaking of fitness centers, LifeTime Fitness is on the site of the former Fortunoff's Outdoor store on Zeckendorf
The former chemical plant on Zeckendorf, just East of Verizon, is AAR Aircraft Components (or was, anyway).
The former Avis/Cendant location (retail) is officially the Gallery At Westbury, but are you certain AMF is not the chemical plant that I mentioned above? There was definitely a siding inside the plant, but Avis/Cendant, not so much (the branch formed the southern boundary of the parking lot, ROW was still visible a few years ago.
There are other changes too, if you can fix the link I think the map does not include some sidings that were there (I was going by this map on your site)

ETA: I guess that is the same map. I see that 45 - 46 are not visible on the map (cut off on the right). I realize the road layout has changed over the years, but I think even on the historical topos South St. is EAST of Oak St. (can't access NER Historical Aerials right now). That throws the bottom part of the map really off.

Final suggestion - since there has been no freight service for near 20 years on these lines, and it's rather unlikely to restart, just declare a final date for the updated listing (say January 2016), and don't waste time going forward trying to keep it in sync. Stores change all the time in that area - in 1999 I'd never thought The Wiz, and Borders Books would be gone...
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Re: Garden City Secondary Industries Update/Current Ststus

Postby Backshophoss » Fri Feb 19, 2016 9:48 pm

Sir Ray,For now the "cutoff" date for freight service on the Secondary should be the date LIRR handed off
freight service to NY&A,and the "political agreement/no freight ban" went into effect.
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Re: Garden City Secondary Industries Update/Current Ststus

Postby nyandw » Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:50 pm

Sir Ray: Thank you as I fixed the link. Yes my LIRR Garden City 1966 map has the partial missing on the lower right.

1. Can anyone provide a complete correct Garden City 1966 map? Please advise.

Here's the LIRR 1986 map of the area: http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/centralbranch/Garden-City-Secondary-1978.jpg AND the posted entire LIRR 1986 track maps: Courtesy of Jeff Erlich http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/lirrtrackmaps/LIRR-maps-1986_JeffErlitz.pdf

2. I'll update the material as per Sir Ray and repost. :-)
Last edited by nyandw on Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Garden City Secondary Industries Update/Current Ststus

Postby nyandw » Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:37 pm

Backshophoss wrote:Sir Ray,For now the "cutoff" date for freight service on the Secondary should be the date LIRR handed off
freight service to NY&A,and the "political agreement/no freight ban" went into effect.


And that date might be?
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Re: Garden City Secondary Industries Update/Current Ststus

Postby Sir Ray » Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:25 pm

nyandw wrote:
Backshophoss wrote:Sir Ray,For now the "cutoff" date for freight service on the Secondary should be the date LIRR handed off
freight service to NY&A,and the "political agreement/no freight ban" went into effect.


And that date might be?


"The NY&A officially took over Long Island Rail Road's freight operations on May 11, 1997"

However, I realize Steve wanted to update the lists of facilities that were once freight customers to what they are now, however that probably is a never-ending task. At this date, isn't there only about one or two businesses left that were active rail freight clients back in the day (Hampton, maybe, and that pipe distributor off Commerical - and is the PX at Mitchel still there?) ?

Going back to my earlier statement about that 1966 LIRR map, it is somewhat inaccurate - here is the NETR (Historic Aerials) 1957 Topo of the area (the 1961 topo isn't that great, although the 1972 topo looks about the same as the 1957 in the area we're most interested in) - in any case, Oak St. is clearly WEST of South St (the Bronze spur/Meadowbrook branch on the topo clearly shows this), while the LIRR RR map it's clearly east. This kind of throws the locating of the various business south of Commercial off. At leasts on the 1986 LIRR map this was corrected.
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Re: Garden City Secondary Industries Update/Current Status

Postby nyandw » Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:00 pm

Great help folks and greatly appreciated. :-) In comparing the 1966 to the 1986 I have:

Was the 1966 #44 AMF Corp or #45 Colonial Press location (LIRR 1966) labeled BLANK #15 on the 1986 map an active location as the map spotting location is provided?

LIRR 1966 Map..................Location LIRR 1986 Map

30 E.A. Gillespie
31 Max Rosen Lumber
32 Oxford Filing.................1 Oxford Pendaflex
33 Newsday.......................2 Daily News
34 LILCO
35 A&P............................3 A&P
36 Marta Coop.
37 Capital Warehouse...........4 Borus Bros.
38 Hampton Sales................5 Hampton Sales
39 Team Tracks..................6,7 Team Tracks
40 General Bronze...............17 Grumman
41 Waldbaums...................13 Global Sysco/Garden City Refrig
42 Blanchard Press..............14 Mercury Litho/Georgia Webb
43 Arma Corp
44 AMF Corp
45 Colonial Press
46 Continential Extrusion......9 Continential Extrusion
47 Mitchell Air Force Base.....10 Navy Annex
48 Hogan Industrial Supply
49 J.W. Walthers
50 NY Telephone
51 Lee Story......................11 Lee Story
52 Borus Bros. Paper Co.
53 Master Millwork..............12 Master Millwork
54 Garden City Paper Co........16 Garden City Paper
55 Plowman Bros.
56 Lamparter Accustial Co.
57 Wimaco Co.

I think I'll close it out as of 1986 UNLESS someone has further modifications with a post script of: "The NY&A officially took over Long Island Rail Road's freight operations on May 11, 1997"

BTW: Further info on the Central Branch: http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/centralbranch/lirrcentralbranch.htm and the Levittown/Salisbury area
http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/levittown/lirrlevittown.htm
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Re: Garden City Secondary Industries Update/Current Status

Postby Sir Ray » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:50 am

nyandw wrote:I think I'll close it out as of 1986 UNLESS someone has further modifications with a post script of: "The NY&A officially took over Long Island Rail Road's freight operations on May 11, 1997"

Well, since these images and lists don't really consume that much disk space, I'd recommend keeping the 1966 and 1986 maps, along with tables (remember HTML tables?) listing the 1966, 1986, and (say 2016) businesses and facilities, and then calling it a day.
Remember, Continental Extrusion, the refrigerated warehouse (apparently Foremost Cold Storage of NY back in 1991), and the intermodal ash trafic flow from the Renfuel waste to energy plant were more or less going concerns in the early 1990s.

In any case keep the historical comparisons, so we can look at your site in 25 years when there's nothing left in that area but dollar stores, abandoned fitness centers, quantum gene therapy clinics, and overflow parking for "The Gallery At Roosevelt Centre" and scream in our best Heston voice: "YOU MANIACS! YOU BLEW IT ALL UP!" and all that :P
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Re: Garden City Secondary Industries Update/Current Status

Postby nyandw » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:55 pm

Anyone know where Colonial Press in Garden City was located? Thanks.
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Re: Garden City Secondary Industries Update/Current Status

Postby nyandw » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:57 pm

Sir Ray wrote:In any case keep the historical comparisons, so we can look at your site in 25 years when there's nothing left in that area but dollar stores, abandoned fitness centers, quantum gene therapy clinics, and overflow parking for "The Gallery At Roosevelt Centre" and scream in our best Heston voice: "YOU MANIACS! YOU BLEW IT ALL UP!" and all that :P


Working on it, thanks Sir Ray!
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Re: Garden City Secondary Industries Update/Current Status

Postby MADDOG » Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:04 am

nyandw wrote:Folks, Here's what I have gathered thus far. Revisions/updates?

Image
http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/lirrtrackmaps/Garden-City-Secondary-1966.jpg
LIRR 1966 Map................Became
30 E.A. Gillespie
31 Max Rosen Lumber
32 Oxford Filing...............Oxford Pendaflex in 1969 .....Esselte in 1976... FedEx
33 Newsday.....................Empty
34 LILCO........................LIPA/Nat Grid
35 A&P Team Track............Stewart Plaza parking lot 1990
36 Marta Coop.
37 Capital Warehouse.........Mattress shop and a small Professional building
38 Hampton Sales..............Hampton Sales
39 Team Tracks
40 General Bronze.............HQ of Computer Associates Retail Stores
41 Waldbaums..................Lowes
42 Blanchard Press.............Fortunoff's Outdoor store
43 Arma Corp...................Gallard & Schlesinger, .....Budenheim in 2005,..... AAR aircraft parts
44 AMF Corp....................AVIS....Cendant....Retail Center
45 Colonial Press
46 Continential Extrusion.....Dress Outlet.......Storage Facility (?)
47 Mitchell Air Force Base.....Abandoned
48 Hogan Industrial Supply
49 J.W. Walthers
50 NY Telephone
51 Lee Story....................Serivoli Foods?
52 Borus Bros. Paper Co.
53 Master Millwork
54 Garden City Paper Co.
55 Plowman Bros.
56 Lamparter Accustial Co.
57 Wimaco Co.


Hey all,
#51 Lee Story is now Seviroli foods.
OBRM used to store our hack #50 on the other side of Oak street while we were restoring it.
They make really good pasta that you can easily find in the grocery store.

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Re: Garden City Secondary Industries Update/Current Status

Postby Sir Ray » Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:56 am

MADDOG wrote:OBRM used to store our hack #50 on the other side of Oak street while we were restoring it

Now that you mention it, wasn't there some other pieces of rolling stock stored there for awhile during the 1990s? As you said, directly south of Commercial St and East of Oak St, on what would have been the lead to Seviroli (if it had been reactivated), between the (then LI Bus) maintenance depot and the ground water filtering station.
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Re: Garden City Secondary Industries Update/Current Status

Postby nyandw » Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:43 pm

1. Sir Ray: "...The former chemical plant on Zeckendorf, just East of Verizon, is AAR Aircraft Components (or was, anyway).
The former Avis/Cendant location (retail) is officially the Gallery At Westbury, but are you certain AMF is not the chemical plant that I mentioned above?..."


I'm using the 1966 map locations #43/44 as the starting point. Not 100% sure. Anyone?

2. "...I see that 45 - 46 are not visible on the map (cut off on the lower right)..."

I revised my version to correct the page #49 and add location #46 Continental Extrusion (#9 on 1986 map)

3. Location #45 Colonial Press is not on my copy of LIRR 1966 map. Anyone know the location or have this map?

4. "...Remember, Continental Extrusion, the refrigerated warehouse (apparently Foremost Cold Storage of NY back in 1991), and the intermodal ash traffic flow from the Renfuel waste to energy plant were more or less going concerns in the early 1990s..."

a. Did Foremost Cold Storage receive freight?
b. Renfuel Waste rail freight?

5. Can we define the last use of this trackage for freight delivery?


The latest: http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/centralbranch/lirrcentralbranch.htm

Thanks to all to get to this point! :-)
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Re: Garden City Secondary Industries Update/Current Status

Postby Sir Ray » Mon Feb 22, 2016 11:08 pm

nyandw wrote:1. Sir Ray: "...The former chemical plant on Zeckendorf, just East of Verizon, is AAR Aircraft Components (or was, anyway).
The former Avis/Cendant location (retail) is officially the Gallery At Westbury, but are you certain AMF is not the chemical plant that I mentioned above?..."

Well, apparently AVIS moved to it's location at 900 Old Country Road in 1962, so that would preclude AMF on the 1966 map.

3. Location #45 Colonial Press is not on my copy of LIRR 1966 map. Anyone know the location or have this map?

I think we discussed this before, but on the 1966 historical aerials the second building east of Endo Blvd (on what is now called Endo Blvd Extension), now called the Garden City Surgery Center (I took my Mom to the first building several years ago for Cataract surgery) has what seems to be a loading dock in back. Interestingly, the large building at the East end of Endo Extension did NOT abut the rails - instead there was parking lot between it and the rails, later filled by the extension which exists now, so if I had to guess, that second building was Colonial Press (of course, don't bet your life on it). I see no indication that the building directly north of the Central branch on the west side of Endo was rail served on the 1966 map.
It is interesting that Endo Pharmaceutical was not rail served at the time (it was opened in 1964). This is now the Lifetime building, and apparently made somewhat of a stir when it was built due to it's curved, concrete, "Brutalist" style. Heh, it now just sort of blends into the background.

Did Foremost Cold Storage receive freight?
Good question, I can say that for a period in the early 1990s, one refrigerator car would be left on the lead which used to feed the spurs to the Cold Storage (torn down for Lowes; #41 Waldbaums on the 1966 TAF map) and Fortunoff's Outdoor Store (#42 Blanchard Press, torn down for the fitness center). Why the car was left there, I think was explained in a post long ago, perhaps on the original railroad.net (the 1990s version) when it was still fresh in our minds...

Can we define the last use of this trackage for freight delivery?
[/quote]
Nope. Well I can't anyway...but we can identify the exact date when it was officially executed.
What makes it tough is that store & business closings tended to be harder to find back then (although Newsday is a bit better now at letting us know when firms leave Long Island). I guess somewhere there are official LIRR records indicating the last deliveries, but I have no access to them.
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