Passenger Boarding at Hudson Yards during Javits Events?

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Passenger Boarding at Hudson Yards during Javits Events?

Postby RandomRailfan » Mon Oct 12, 2015 2:24 am

Would it be possible to load passengers at the Hudson Yard if a temporary platform is put up? If there is a huge event at Javits that has pedestrians clogging 34th street, could the LIRR (and or NJ Transit) terminate some passenger trains Hudson Yards to accommodate these passengers?

Could the LIRR run "shuttle trains," on the Port Washington Branch to Willets Point if there is an event is bursting at Javits where the space at the USTA Tennis Center could be used?
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Re: Passenger Boarding at Hudson Yards during Javits Events?

Postby Engine 277 » Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:31 am

No. Its a Layup yard. Its not designed for passengers, and will soon be underground anyway. There is no point. Penn station is a short distance away. People can walk 2 blocks. Train crews do it every day. The number 7 train stops there. Dont want to walk 2 blocks? Take the 7 to woodside and walk downstairs to the LIRR.
8th ave subway 2 blocks away, 7th ave subway 3 blocks away. Plenty of service within walking distance.
There is no catinary. That eliminates NJT trains.
No need to run shuttles to willets point. The number 7 train goes there, and it stops across the street from the javits center.
West side Yard was designed to service trains. There is no room between tracks for temporary platforms.
Cant imagine any event at the javits center that would draw that many people.
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Re: Passenger Boarding at Hudson Yards during Javits Events?

Postby Slippy » Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:59 am

Engine 277 is right. Plus, with the opening of Hudson Yards 34th Street station on the Number 7 line, that would eliminate any need to which you speak of.
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Re: Passenger Boarding at Hudson Yards during Javits Events?

Postby ADL6009 » Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:42 am

The javits center just hosted NY comic con, I don't think events get any bigger than that. Were the streets completely impassible? No
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Re: Passenger Boarding at Hudson Yards during Javits Events?

Postby Kelly&Kelly » Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:01 am

The LIRR could build a platform in West Side Yard for passenger trains. Such a platform was indeed planned but never built.

One problem is that the switching system in the yard is not an "interlocking" as defined by the FRA, and because of the absence of several safety factors shouldn't be used by passenger-hauling trains. Certain signal modifications would have to be made, and those would be costly.

As others here have so rightly stated, the LIRR wouldn't want any part of this. It's too expensive, another liability and it would get minimal use. The MTA would see it as a duplication of service. But if it were politically desired, it could be done.
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Re: Passenger Boarding at Hudson Yards during Javits Events?

Postby Engine 277 » Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:26 pm

The only time a platform was discussed, was when they were planning to put a stadium over the yard for the Jets. I think before that for the Mets or Yankees. All those plans were shot down by neighborhood groups who did not want a ballpark there. We came very close to having the Jets play there. I even saw the plans for Baseball stadium. To put a platform in, it would have been on the high side by the wall, and the service platform the Coach Cleaners use would have been eliminated. Those were the plans anyway. I was going to get into the whole no passenger trains thing, as it turns out Kelly covered that.Even with that, there has been the occasional service disruption where they backed a train Load of people into the yard, and out through another station track.It happened a few times years ago. I doubt they still do it. Also the farewell trip for the M-1's went to west side yard. that was about 9 years ago.
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Re: Passenger Boarding at Hudson Yards during Javits Events?

Postby RearOfSignal » Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:27 am

Kelly&Kelly wrote:One problem is that the switching system in the yard is not an "interlocking" as defined by the FRA, and because of the absence of several safety factors shouldn't be used by passenger-hauling trains. Certain signal modifications would have to be made, and those would be costly.


If not an interlocking then what is currently used? Remotely controlled switches and indicators?
Hurry up and wait at the signal!
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Re: Passenger Boarding at Hudson Yards during Javits Events?

Postby Kelly&Kelly » Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:03 am

To be considered a relay" Interlocking" and permitted by the FRA to handle passenger trains, all circuits handling track routes must be "vital circuits" which are operated by "vital" relays. A vital relay is designed so that the probability of its failing to return to a prescribed state when it is de-energized is so low that for all practical purposes it is considered to be nonexistent.

Vital relays are very expensive, and their servicing is costly. To save money, virtually all of WSY's switching equipment was built using cheap, $15 "non-vital" relays.

WSY is not an Interlocking. It is a controlled yard. As in a yard with hand-thrown switches, the level of protection from opposing routes is not as high as possible.
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Re: Passenger Boarding at Hudson Yards during Javits Events?

Postby RandomRailfan » Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:37 am

Have things changes in the three years since this was posted? Lots of people trying to get to Comic Con this weekend, no service on the 7 train and the M34 is overloaded!
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Re: Passenger Boarding at Hudson Yards during Javits Events?

Postby DogBert » Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:27 pm

Those comiccon visitors can complain to Cuomo. MTA is in a frenzy trying to get 7 line CBTC finished (after nearly 8 years of service disruptions) before the tidal wave of new riders coming up from Brooklyn due to the L shutdown next spring.

I wish I could say I feel those convention visitors pain but at this point, boo hoo. 7 train commuters have been to hell for years now and if they don't get those new signals working soon, Queens and North Brooklyn will be completely paralyzed come April...

Should they have placed a 'redundant' LIRR stop there? Probably. But this is the MTA we're talking about.
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Re: Passenger Boarding at Hudson Yards during Javits Events?

Postby DutchRailnut » Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:54 pm

before blaming FRA , Cuomo , sun position or your wives cycle, the FRA would not ever let occupied passenger trains enter a yard , simply cause its not protected.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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Re: Passenger Boarding at Hudson Yards during Javits Events?

Postby ADL6009 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:55 pm

How does WSY differ from say Long Beach Yard? Or Hempstead, Far Rockaway, Montauk, West Hempstead or Port Washington yards? (All are yards with passenger platforms)
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Re: Passenger Boarding at Hudson Yards during Javits Events?

Postby Backshophoss » Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:46 am

West Side Yard is NOT part of NY Penn,was never set up to handle passengers inside yard limits.
Any platforms are used for mid day running repairs and interior cleanup.
There's no safe access route for passenger use in the yard,or a safe sidewalk to reach Javits center
Penn Station is close enough to the Javits center(8-10 block hike)
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Re: Passenger Boarding at Hudson Yards during Javits Events?

Postby Kelly&Kelly » Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:00 pm

West Side Yard is controlled by a signal system; Long Beach yard is not. A signal system which controls the movement of passenger trains must be interlocked in the manner prescribed by regulation. West Side Yard's signals are not interlocked as required for passenger train operation. The system can be changed or removed with certain operating rule revisions made -- thus offering an opportunity to operate passenger trains into a yard platform.

If the Railroad desired to operate passenger trains into West Side, it could be done with the proper operational modifications.
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Re: Passenger Boarding at Hudson Yards during Javits Events?

Postby CentralValleyRail » Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:32 am

DogBert wrote:Those comiccon visitors can complain to Cuomo. MTA is in a frenzy trying to get 7 line CBTC finished (after nearly 8 years of service disruptions) before the tidal wave of new riders coming up from Brooklyn due to the L shutdown next spring.

I wish I could say I feel those convention visitors pain but at this point, boo hoo. 7 train commuters have been to hell for years now and if they don't get those new signals working soon, Queens and North Brooklyn will be completely paralyzed come April...

Should they have placed a 'redundant' LIRR stop there? Probably. But this is the MTA we're talking about.


Good, most of the people who attend that convention are pretty weird. It's a convention of social rejects. Saw them walking thru Secaucus and it was like WTF are you kidding me? Yeah sure you have a few hotties mixed in but wow just wow.

Then again a fair amount of train fans are pretty weird too. I've met some real out there ones on various special/limited edition excursions. I've also met some awesome people along the way too but from an outsider perspective I can see how people can see train fans as the same boat as the comic cons.
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