M9 and M9A Procurement & Acceptance

Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.

Moderator: Liquidcamphor

Re: M9 and M9A Procurement & Acceptance

Postby Train2009 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:53 am

Yesterday morning Friday 11/09 at around 11 AM a test train left Belmont Park with 2 M7s on the west end and 4 M9 cars (total 6 cars) as it went by Queens Village headed westbound.
Train2009
 
Posts: 1653
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2008 5:52 pm
Location: White Plains, New York Westchester County

Re: M9 and M9A Procurement & Acceptance

Postby NYR2218 » Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:44 am

M9s were seen today in Bethpage around 10:15 heading to KO
NYR2218
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:21 pm

Re: M9 and M9A Procurement & Acceptance

Postby Train2009 » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:01 pm

This morning at 9:14 AM a 6 car M9 test train was seen in Hillside within the yard as it was headed westbound down to Woodside- Queens for a test run.
Train2009
 
Posts: 1653
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2008 5:52 pm
Location: White Plains, New York Westchester County

Re: M9 and M9A Procurement & Acceptance

Postby berlintransit » Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:02 pm

Hello everyone!

The PDF materials for the Monday, October 22, 2018 MTA Board Metro-North and LIRR Committee meeting contain some interesting facts and updates concerning the M9 and especially M9A procurement.
Link: http://web.mta.info/mta/news/books/pdf/181022_0830_MNRLI.pdf

1. The LIRR expects to 'conditionally accept' 92 M9 base order cars from May '19 to Jan '20 - and put them into service subsequently, hopefully. 110 option order cars will then be accepted throughout 2020.

2. The LIRR will only receive these 202 M9 cars, 180 for M3 replacement and 22 for 'ridership growth'. It looks as if there will be no more option cars beyond this, neither for LIRR nor for MNR, most probably considering the whole procurement process must have been a disaster with the M9 years behind schedule. With new FRA regulations in place, they are probably hoping for a clean new shot with the M9A where options have been added.

3. The M9A procurement contract is planned to be awarded in the 2nd quarter of 2019 and will be segmented as followed:
    100 (up to) LIRR Base Cars
    114 LIRR Option Cars (60 planned M9A + 54 previously M9 Cars)
    214 Total regular LIRR Cars -- totalling to up to 416 with the M9, 180 for M3 replacement and up to 236 for ESA service and other service expansions
    30 LIRR Option Coaches -- more on that topic below
    244 Total Cars LIRR
    200 MNR Option Cars
    444 Total M9A Cars

Besides the expected regular 416 LIRR M9/M9A, there is a strange mention of 30 'LIRR Option Coaches'. I could not find out anything further about these mysterious coaches from older or more recent board meetings so far. For my understanding, a coach is a non-powered passenger car, a trailer. I have learned on Wiki the M9/M9A specification indeed seems to include something like a 'C' or single car with 114 seats compared to 111 and 101 in the A and B car.
It seems LIRR is considering buying a couple of single, unmotorized M9A cars. What are your thoughts on that? May the LIRR
    * lengthen 30 M9A married pairs to triplets and perhaps make more use of the installed traction the motor cars have, considering they are conceivably derated due to insufficient power supply?
    * buy some compatible diesel engines on top and solve the diesel fleet shortage? (This would most probably mean some of the coaches would have to be cab cars, but if you operate a consist of these coaches you would have to have an ADA compliant restroom every now and then anyways, for which some unpowered B cars would also be helpful)
After all, it might just be a wording thing that in order to not have "LIRR option cars" on the Board Meeting slide twice beneath each other they chose to name the second option 'coaches'. I hope to find out more about that...
berlintransit
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2016 2:36 pm

Re: M9 and M9A Procurement & Acceptance

Postby DutchRailnut » Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:30 pm

the unpowered M-9a's would be like the New Haven line M-8 S cars , they do not go in a pair but between two pair, like A-B - S -A-B.
they have no traction motors just battery charger , power inverter and HVAC . they can not be used as Locomotive hauled coaches.
They have no Toilets .
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

Retired Triebfahrzeugführer. I am not a moderator.
User avatar
DutchRailnut
 
Posts: 21816
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:02 pm
Location: released from Stalag 13

Re: M9 and M9A Procurement & Acceptance

Postby BuddR32 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:49 am

From what I've seen & heard at New Haven, the M8 S cars are a white elephant joke, rusting to the rails at 75% of the cost of a whole pair. This was two years ago, are the S cars in use yet?
BuddR32
 
Posts: 198
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:14 pm

Re: M9 and M9A Procurement & Acceptance

Postby hs3730 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:44 am

On weekends at least it seems almost every train of M8s has the single, often as the 3rd car from the New Haven end (for a total of 7 or 9 cars).
I've also seen them do 5 car New Canaan trains.

Dunno how well the concept is working out. It is very weird trying to get to a bathroom from one, though - it's not obvious to the lay person which adjacent car has a bathroom, and sometimes an M8 pair is flipped around backwards for extra confusion. Once that's been figured out you then have to navigate through the harder to open "A" end of the car.

I don't see the LIRR suddenly wanting to deal with MU trains with an odd number of cars, and having to add stop markers for 5,7,9,11 car trains. Also while the M8s are mostly confined to the one line, fine tuning consist lengths to that level is less useful when the same train can end up on 3 different branches by the end of the day. Maybe 5 car trains for the West Hempstead shuttle, but no need to order 30 for that.
hs3730
 
Posts: 148
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:30 pm
Location: Albany NY

Re: M9 and M9A Procurement & Acceptance

Postby Head-end View » Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:07 pm

hs3730, I'm guessing you are correct. The LIRR is most likely to want to stay with its well defined system of married-pairs for all the reasons you cited.
Head-end View
 
Posts: 2524
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:00 pm
Location: The second row on a SEPTA Silverliner V

Re: M9 and M9A Procurement & Acceptance

Postby DutchRailnut » Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:27 pm

They have been in service every day with no rust in sight .
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

Retired Triebfahrzeugführer. I am not a moderator.
User avatar
DutchRailnut
 
Posts: 21816
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:02 pm
Location: released from Stalag 13

Re: M9 and M9A Procurement & Acceptance

Postby ConstanceR46 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:49 pm

Perhaps the intent is to triplet them, so you could use less motored cars for the same total amount of cars, while keeping things even.

(I.e Cab+Trailer+Cab+Cab+Trailer+Cab uses 4 motors instead of 6)
ConstanceR46
 
Posts: 306
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:57 pm

Re: M9 and M9A Procurement & Acceptance

Postby DutchRailnut » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:26 pm

They do not work as triplet each S car has to be bracketed by pair on each side, they do not have jumper connections just the automatic coupler with Electric head.
pair-S car - pair each train can only have one S car or computer will reject the setup.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

Retired Triebfahrzeugführer. I am not a moderator.
User avatar
DutchRailnut
 
Posts: 21816
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:02 pm
Location: released from Stalag 13

Re: M9 and M9A Procurement & Acceptance

Postby andrewjw » Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:50 pm

Can they run Cab Cab Trailer Trailer Cab Cab?
andrewjw
 
Posts: 307
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:48 am

Re: M9 and M9A Procurement & Acceptance

Postby DutchRailnut » Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:26 pm

if by cab /cab you mean pair ?? a pair is A/B car one with bathroom other not.
and again the computer system only allows one S car in entire consist , no matter how long the consist is.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

Retired Triebfahrzeugführer. I am not a moderator.
User avatar
DutchRailnut
 
Posts: 21816
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:02 pm
Location: released from Stalag 13

Re: M9 and M9A Procurement & Acceptance

Postby ConstanceR46 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:10 am

Yes, but that's for M8s. The M9 could theoretically be set up to have blind cars in between some pairs.
ConstanceR46
 
Posts: 306
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:57 pm

Re: M9 and M9A Procurement & Acceptance

Postby DutchRailnut » Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:29 am

but they won't cause it would cause problems with shops, toilet servicing etc.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

Retired Triebfahrzeugführer. I am not a moderator.
User avatar
DutchRailnut
 
Posts: 21816
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:02 pm
Location: released from Stalag 13

PreviousNext

Return to Long Island Rail Road (LIRR)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests