M9 Procurement & Acceptance

Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.

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Re: M9 Procurement & Acceptance

Postby Backshophoss » Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:11 pm

Due to how the air brake system is set up for the LIRR M-3's and M-7's,they are only towed by diesels when needed(shop tow in,emergency tow).
Without 3rd rail power NO heat/AC,lights,working bathrooms,non working doors,etc,batteries will last a very short time.
Only way to stop is to place the brakes into Emergency when towed!
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Re: M9 Procurement & Acceptance

Postby geico » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:35 pm

MNRR M cars are setup for normal brakes and can run in conventional train set but nothing other than brakes will work.

LIRR M cars have their own brake setup and can only be towed in an emergency. never understood why LIRR choose this set up. Someone know?
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Re: M9 Procurement & Acceptance

Postby Head-end View » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:13 pm

Amazing how even today there is still so much difference between LIRR and M-N even though they are run by the same parent agency. Effectively they are still two separate railroads that happen to buy similar equipment.
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Re: M9 Procurement & Acceptance

Postby BuddR32 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:48 am

geico wrote:MNRR M cars are setup for normal brakes and can run in conventional train set but nothing other than brakes will work.

LIRR M cars have their own brake setup and can only be towed in an emergency. never understood why LIRR choose this set up. Someone know?


The LI M1/M3 arrived with the D-1-A triple valve to allow full brake pipe control of the air brakes when towed by a locomotive. This valve, and the related apparatus was another maintenance item that would have to be inspected, cleaned and tested, (and the related expense) for marginal benefit. Remember, if these things are being towed by a locomotive, something is wrong, and they're not losing any additional revenue pulling them at 15 mph vs 40 mph if they had the valves. LIRR opted to remove them, and also when it came time to purchase the M7, left them off altogether, at a significant savings per car if I remember.
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Re: M9 Procurement & Acceptance

Postby rr503 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:07 am

Head-end View wrote:Amazing how even today there is still so much difference between LIRR and M-N even though they are run by the same parent agency. Effectively they are still two separate railroads that happen to buy similar equipment.


Oh, it's two different universes. One has its act together and then some. The other...........................
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Re: M9 Procurement & Acceptance

Postby DutchRailnut » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:53 am

geico wrote:MNRR M cars are setup for normal brakes and can run in conventional train set but nothing other than brakes will work.


ok MN cars can be moved as freight cars in conventional freight trains (90 lbs brake pipe/ direct release) only.
which is convenient when rescues are made or cars have to send out for overhauls.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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Re: M9 Procurement & Acceptance

Postby geico » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:05 am

BuddR32 wrote:
geico wrote:MNRR M cars are setup for normal brakes and can run in conventional train set but nothing other than brakes will work.

LIRR M cars have their own brake setup and can only be towed in an emergency. never understood why LIRR choose this set up. Someone know?


The LI M1/M3 arrived with the D-1-A triple valve to allow full brake pipe control of the air brakes when towed by a locomotive. This valve, and the related apparatus was another maintenance item that would have to be inspected, cleaned and tested, (and the related expense) for marginal benefit. Remember, if these things are being towed by a locomotive, something is wrong, and they're not losing any additional revenue pulling them at 15 mph vs 40 mph if they had the valves. LIRR opted to remove them, and also when it came time to purchase the M7, left them off altogether, at a significant savings per car if I remember.
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Re: M9 Procurement & Acceptance

Postby geico » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:06 am

yes but MNRR has been able to get their cars delivered via rails on freight runs. LIRR has to have them lifted on to tractor trailers and then shipped and then lifted on to rails. Same goes for work that needs to be done offsite. MNRR can move on its own wheels, LIRR has to pickup, truck, pickup again. Seems like a waste of time, labor and money to me
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Re: M9 Procurement & Acceptance

Postby Backshophoss » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:44 pm

The LIRR M-1's and M-3's were placed on flatcars when shipped new from the factory,believe the M-7's were also shipped from BBD on flat cars.
Figure on the M-9's for LIRR will also be shipped on flat cars from the plant in Lincoln NE.
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Re: M9 Procurement & Acceptance

Postby DutchRailnut » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:18 pm

If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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Re: M9 Procurement & Acceptance

Postby Head-end View » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:39 pm

Ah, that explains why LIRR brought the M-7's in on flat-cars instead of moving them on the rails. I've been wondering about that for years. :wink:
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Re: M9 Procurement & Acceptance

Postby BuddR32 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:28 am

geico wrote:yes but MNRR has been able to get their cars delivered via rails on freight runs. LIRR has to have them lifted on to tractor trailers and then shipped and then lifted on to rails. Same goes for work that needs to be done offsite. MNRR can move on its own wheels, LIRR has to pickup, truck, pickup again. Seems like a waste of time, labor and money to me


Yes, but you're talking about once when delivered, and then again 35 years later for scrap. Its insignificant IMO. And as for off site work, LIRR doesn't send anything offsite. They did the DE/DM, but that was part of a warranty lawsuit settlement.
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Re: M9 Procurement & Acceptance

Postby geico » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:16 pm

Several pairs of M7s were sent back to BBD for work after they were delivered.
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Re: M9 Procurement & Acceptance

Postby Backshophoss » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:19 pm

Hillside was never setup to work on diesels or the C-3's,only for the M series MU cars,LIRR torn down the Morris Park Backshop,so the
warrranty work was shipped out to CR's(now NS's) Altoona shop for the DM's and DE's
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Re: M9 Procurement & Acceptance

Postby BuddR32 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:09 am

geico wrote:Several pairs of M7s were sent back to BBD for work after they were delivered.


Yes, that is true, the trucks had to be re-worked. I remember the M7 arrived on flat cars, with a special roll off ramp in Holban Yard. They weren't trucked over the highways (if that's what you meant) Another reason to ship like that was that they were able to be sent with their shoe beam and outriggers installed already, where if they were sent on their own wheels they would have had to ship them without.

I guess we have a difference of opinion here as to how worth it the triple valve would be :-)
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