LIRR train lengths, any with 14 cars?

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Re: LIRR train lengths, any with 14 cars?

Postby Backshophoss » Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:35 pm

The Cannonball would get a C-420 or GP-38-2 as power,sometimes 2 GP38-2's during the summer
with the most reliable Power Pac with the markers(FA or F-7).
MP -15's were normally branch, work train and freight power
To put a pair of MP15's on the Cannonball would be a "last resort" option.
Untill the L-2's(C-420's) were retired,a pair of them would get the call if the GP's crapped out(rare).
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Re: LIRR train lengths, any with 14 cars?

Postby keyboardkat » Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:54 pm

In the '60s there was a rush hour train HP to Port Jeff that ran with 17 cars. It had two ex-B&M "American Flyer cars, then two P-72s, then five modernized P-54s, then two more P-72s, then five more P-54s, then one P-72 on the end. It ran with a 2400hp F-M C-liner. I used to see it barreling through Mineola.

In those days there was no HEP. Each car was self-sufficient, either with axle-belt-driven generators (P-54s) or undercar diesel alternators (P-72s and B&M cars). And of course, steam heat from the locomotive's steam generator in the winter. So HEP was not an issue in train length.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, Amtrak's P-42s do not use an inverter for HEP. They use a crankshaft-driven alternator powered by the prime mover. The engine runs at a steady RPM, and the engineer's throttle controls only main generator excitation. They have DC traction motors. They have a special setup so that HEP can be maintained in terminals at half engine RPM. This older technology predates the advent of reliable computer controlled inverters. The dual mode Genesis models, however, do have AC traction and inverters for HEP.
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Re: LIRR train lengths, any with 14 cars?

Postby docsteve » Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:40 am

Before the HEP days, the LIRR got light-weight parlor cars when Amtrak was created (surplussing everyone's passenger cars (except for SP, Southern, and Rock Island)). [That is when the Phoebe Snows cars arrived (now 2/3s of the MTA inspection train).] The cars used batteries that were charged by an under-car generator run off an axel drive. One night I had a car wth defective batteries, so everytime we pulled into a station the lights went out!
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Re: LIRR train lengths, any with 14 cars?

Postby FrankAndCindy » Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:55 pm

Hello everyone, Back in the sixties There was a 16 car train for Port Jeff Followed by a 15 car train for Port Jeff. Also train 272 I believe had 14 cars. I worked all of these as a trainman. I'm not sure but I think at some point there was a 22 car train to Montauk. Frank and CINDY.
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Re: LIRR train lengths, any with 14 cars?

Postby MattAmity90 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:09 pm

FrankAndCindy wrote:Hello everyone, Back in the sixties There was a 16 car train for Port Jeff Followed by a 15 car train for Port Jeff. Also train 272 I believe had 14 cars. I worked all of these as a trainman. I'm not sure but I think at some point there was a 22 car train to Montauk. Frank and CINDY.


If it is electric, that would overload the substations, but then again electric service has been servicing Huntington Westward since 1970. The third rail can tolerate 14 electric cars without tripping the substations and overloading the current.
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Re: LIRR train lengths, any with 14 cars?

Postby vince » Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:17 pm

MattAmity90 wrote:If it is electric, that would overload the substations,


Not necessarily Matt.
MP54's I rode to high school frequently had trailer cars in the consist.
The six car train I took from Wavecrest to Rosedale every day returning from Far Rockaway HS usually had four motors and two trailers.

The third rail can tolerate 14 electric cars without tripping the substations and overloading the current.


That's quite interesting. By chance do you have a reference for that information? Thanks in advance.

regards,
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Re: LIRR train lengths, any with 14 cars?

Postby northpit » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:25 pm

FrankAndCindy wrote:Hello everyone, Back in the sixties There was a 16 car train for Port Jeff Followed by a 15 car train for Port Jeff. Also train 272 I believe had 14 cars. I worked all of these as a trainman. I'm not sure but I think at some point there was a 22 car train to Montauk. Frank and CINDY.

where did these trains layup in port Jefferson? I'm guessing east of Columbia street but does 15 cars fit between wye to turn the engine? I know there used to be a hostler in port jeff did he do the moves? thanks
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Re: LIRR train lengths, any with 14 cars?

Postby Head-end View » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:45 pm

There used to be a LIRR engineer on this board who claimed he once ran an equipment train (no passengers) of eighteen M-Series EMU cars out to Babylon Yard. I don't know if they ran with lights and A/C shut off or were limited to a certain speed but he claimed to have successfully done it one time. Maybe it was a test of some sort to see if the system could handle it?
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Re: LIRR train lengths, any with 14 cars?

Postby Teutobergerwald » Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:11 am

Sometimes, train stories are like fish stories......
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Re: LIRR train lengths, any with 14 cars?

Postby Backshophoss » Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:28 am

There's a limit of 14 cars(7 pairs) on M-3 and M-7 consists by special instruction in the LIRR ETT,unless you have the blessing from the Chief DS.
Only other exceptions are yard switching moves,and Disabled train assistance.

That 18 car(9 pair) move must have had the Chief DS blessing(if it ever happened!)
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Re: LIRR train lengths, any with 14 cars?

Postby BuddR32 » Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:42 am

M7 & M9 design limit for consist length in normal passenger service is 14 cars without degradation of trainline control. Because they can do it, doesn't mean the railroad does it however.

The 18 car M1/M3 set did happen, but it was a special moved to get cars out of NY. There was an M3 on each end because the M3 has a stronger P-wire generator than the M1 did. This was done to ensue the brake release signal would be strong enough. Six cars within the consist had their traction control isolated so those cars wouldn't draw tractive power
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Re: LIRR train lengths, any with 14 cars?

Postby Head-end View » Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:19 pm

Thanks for confirming that, BuddR32. So you're saying that because they set it up for six cars not to draw power, effectively it was a train of twelve motor-cars and six trailers so it worked without tripping breakers at the sub-stations, correct? :wink:
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Re: LIRR train lengths, any with 14 cars?

Postby BuddR32 » Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:50 am

Head-end View wrote:Thanks for confirming that, BuddR32. So you're saying that because they set it up for six cars not to draw power, effectively it was a train of twelve motor-cars and six trailers so it worked without tripping breakers at the sub-stations, correct? :wink:


Essentially, yes. When I hired on, I worked with one of the (now retired) Tech Support Managers who told me about this
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Re: LIRR train lengths, any with 14 cars?

Postby Head-end View » Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:34 pm

Do you happen to know what speed they were able to maintain with the consist set up that way?
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Re: LIRR train lengths, any with 14 cars?

Postby BuddR32 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:35 am

Head-end View wrote:Do you happen to know what speed they were able to maintain with the consist set up that way?



No, long before 2001 when I got on
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