LIRR train lengths, any with 14 cars?

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LIRR train lengths, any with 14 cars?

Postby MNCRR9000 » Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:36 am

On the LIRR how many trains run with 14 cars? I know that the standard is 10-12.
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Re: LIRR train lengths, any with 14 cars?

Postby SwingMan » Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:38 am

None.
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Re: LIRR train lengths, any with 14 cars?

Postby docsteve » Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:59 am

Would there be enough HEP for 14 cars, even with a Dx30AC at each end?

As I understand it,

  • With respect to the locomotive, supplying HEP is a loss of a couple-hundred horsepower per car
    -- I believe the industry standard is 135 hp (100 kW) (I heard the actual LIRR number once but forget it); so,
  • There's a limit to how much the locomotives can be derated to supply HEP (about 1000 hp on the LIRR units?); so,
  • Over a few cars (four or five or six) the train requires additional HEP, so the LIRR's second locomotive is required; and,
  • Whether a single-bus system (one locomotive supplying HEP) or dual-bus system (both locomotives supplying HEP), the industry standard for trainlines is 1 MW over a ten-car train
    -- The standard supposes that railroads may build to a lower rating than the standard;
    -- I'm not sure any commuter systems have been built that are rated higher than the standard;
    -- Is LIRR equipment custom built to a higher rating?
  • in any case, there is a practical limit to train length, which should be ten to 12 cars, depending on individual car loading.
Anybody? A little help here?

Not to be off-topic but in the late '70s there used to be a rush-hour train to Yapank, which I seem to recall ran with 14 cars and two locomotives. While that was the longest daily trian I ever saw, the Cannon Ball on Thurs/Fri (all parlor) would run with near that number: platforming at Jamaica the first car or two and the power would be off the platform.
Last edited by docsteve on Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LIRR train lengths, any with 14 cars?

Postby MattAmity90 » Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:02 pm

Well, even though we don't run any LIRR trains past 12 cars, the Cannonball has 12 double-decker C3 cars (24 normal regular cars) connected with 2 DM30's. In addition, Penn Station, Hicksville, Bellmore, and Jamaica are actually 14 cars long.
This station is Babylon, this is the train to Penn Station. Stopping at: Lindenhurst, Copiague, Amityville, Massapequa Park, Massapequa, Seaford, Wantagh, Bellmore, Merrick, Freeport, Baldwin, Rockville Centre, Lynbrook, Valley Stream, Jamaica, Kew Gardens, Forest Hills, Woodside, Penn Station.
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Re: LIRR train lengths, any with 14 cars?

Postby SwingMan » Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:46 pm

Jamaica cannot platform 14 cars. 1-3 are good for 12, 4-8 for 10. And in Penn the only platforms you can platform any train longer than 12 cars are the tracks leading to the long retired "A" tower.
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Re: LIRR train lengths, any with 14 cars?

Postby Backshophoss » Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:34 pm

Believe in the orignal DE/DM designs there was a limit of 6 cars for the HEP inverters,
1 of the traction motor inverters was rigged as a backup HEP inverter.
However GE's P-32dm HEP inverter was set up 10-12 cars for Amtrak(at the least)
The HEP inverter on Amtrak's P-42 can handle at least 18 Superliner cars.
Believe there was Limit of 6 pairs(12 cars)due to control issues in the train line over 6 pairs
for the M-1's,3's,and 7's.
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Re: LIRR train lengths, any with 14 cars?

Postby EM2000 » Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:08 am

There was no design limit for 6 cars, this is just what the RR puts with one engine to keep schedule. HEP takes priority over traction, no matter the length of the train. And you are wrong regarding the GE's. There is no "max car" rating a Locomotive is given in its design. Anything of that sort is RR specific.
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Re: LIRR train lengths, any with 14 cars?

Postby Doc Emmet Brown » Fri Nov 28, 2014 7:26 am

Used to run 14 car diesels with the old equipment, especially on the Friday night Montauks. Im sure there are plenty of photos on line of 14 plus car trains. If I find any Ill post them. This one might qualify..
http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?42326
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Re: LIRR train lengths, any with 14 cars?

Postby Ocala Mike » Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:57 pm

I could be wrong, but I recall that Ronkonkoma train no. 272 which originated HPA around 5:22 pm had 14 cars behind a 2400-series diesel as it made its Deer Park stop around 6:30 every night. Used to take my son down to the station in the early 70's to watch it pull in.
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Re: LIRR train lengths, any with 14 cars?

Postby C-LINER 2001 » Fri Nov 28, 2014 6:09 pm

Back in 1968 I seen a Port Jefferson Train with 17 Cars all 2900s and 7500s coaches with one AGP-20 for power, my Dad who a Engineer with the LIRR said that the normal train for him except in the fall the Guy got 2 AGP-20, lucky Guy!!.
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Re: LIRR train lengths, any with 14 cars?

Postby nyandw » Fri Nov 28, 2014 10:11 pm

C-LINER 2001 wrote:"...one AGP-20 for power, my Dad who a Engineer with the LIRR said that the normal train for him..."


A bit of info on his Dad's engine class: Alco C420 #200-207 Build: 12/63-02/64 Class: AGP-20MSC (A= Alco, GP= General Purpose, 20= 2000HP, M= MU able, S= Steam Generator, C= Speed Control)

C420 #200 Alco Industries builder photo with as delivered 900/1100 fuel/water capacity tanks. No Dashing Dan logo Image

Image
LIRR #201 C420 at Hicksville Friday 10:03am Eastbound 12/27/1963 "Dashing Dan" yet to be applied. Photo: Art Single

Art's photo perhaps the earliest known shot of the #200-203 group with the build date of 12/63 in action.
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I searched around nada thus far on 14 cars photo... :(
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Re: LIRR train lengths, any with 14 cars?

Postby LRail » Sat Nov 29, 2014 5:22 am

I was under the impression that The Cannonball (up through the summer of '99) consisted of 8 coaches and 6 parlor cars. Was that correct?
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Re: LIRR train lengths, any with 14 cars?

Postby docsteve » Sat Nov 29, 2014 5:13 pm

LRail wrote:I was under the impression that The Cannonball (up through the summer of '99) consisted of 8 coaches and 6 parlor cars. Was that correct?


Not in the 1970s -- During the summer the Cannon Ball was all parlor. Thursday evening was the East Ender and the Canon Ball (all parlor); Friday was East Ender, Adv. Cannon Ball, Cannon Ball (all parlor), Adv. Weekender (all parlor), and Weekender.
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Re: LIRR train lengths, any with 14 cars?

Postby docsteve » Sat Nov 29, 2014 5:17 pm

Ocala Mike wrote:I could be wrong, but I recall that Ronkonkoma train no. 272 which originated HPA around 5:22 pm had 14 cars behind a 2400-series diesel as it made its Deer Park stop around 6:30 every night. Used to take my son down to the station in the early 70's to watch it pull in.


I believe it would have been the early 60's if the diesels were 2400-series. Those were the F-M C-liners. They were replaced in the mid-60's by the ALCO Century 420 units (AGP-20... in LIRR parlance).
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Re: LIRR train lengths, any with 14 cars?

Postby LRail » Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:10 am

I just have been more specific. I was referring only to the Cannonball with the red stripe cars. Btw- did the Cannonball ever run with 2 MP-15s and an Alco or EMD cab?
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