PD Tower position light signalling

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PD Tower position light signalling

Postby nyandw » Fri Sep 19, 2014 5:20 pm

Perhaps you might help explain the PD position light signal and the dwarf that were there?
Image
Rule 290
Image
Rule 294

:-)
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Re: PD Tower position light signalling

Postby emfinite » Sat Sep 20, 2014 12:53 am

They tell the trains to stop and go. What's to explain???
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Re: PD Tower position light signalling

Postby 452 Card » Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:51 am

Rule 290 as shown at top is NOT a train order indication, it is a "Restricting" signal. The position light signal formerly south of the main track and adjacent to the former tower could display indications to proceed either eastward on the main, or onto a diverging route into the yard east of South Ocean Avenue, in addition to a "Train Order" indication.
The dwarf (low home) signal that was formerly south of the North Siding controlled moves eastward from that track into the aforementioned yard, for what usually was a (and still is) a reverse move onto the main to go west from the station.
Westward, there was a cantilever signal bridge that had a position light home signal that protected the yard moves.
That's enuf fer now.
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Re: PD Tower position light signalling

Postby nyandw » Sat Sep 20, 2014 1:55 pm

Thank you 452 card for the details on the dwarf as requested.
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Re: PD Tower position light signalling

Postby nyandw » Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:32 pm

452 card: "...The dwarf (low home) signal that was formerly south of the North Siding controlled moves eastward from that track into the aforementioned yard, for what usually was a (and still is) a reverse move onto the main to go west from the station..".

What indications were used on the low home (dwarf) to indicate the north track or the Fence track? Thank you.

I had posted, on error, the Rule 290 Restricting image, fixed.
Image

PD Signal page:
http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/patchogue/PDsignals/PDsignals.htm

LIRR Signal History page:
http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/signalhistory/signalhistory.htm

Info:
The LIRR Rules of the Operating Dept. are based on the "Standard Code of Operating Rules". We still have superiority between trains, Train Orders, Clearance Cards, etc...probably one of the last. Certainly, the largest remaining example of how a railroad operates on the Standard Code 2006.

RULE 290: RESTRICTED signal indication means to proceed at Restricted Speed prepared to stop short of train, obstruction or switch not properly lined and looking out for broken rail, not exceeding 15 MPH. Positions on the lower head would only be approached at slow speeds, therefore the PRR decided that crews had ample time to sight the black unbacked positions.

With the introduction of Approach Slow in the late 1940's and Medium Approach in 1955 and 1956, there were lower arm aspects that would be approached at higher speeds. I suspect this was the driving force behind full backgrounds for the lower arm. I have no specific references, but it does seem that those full backgrounds seemed to become much more common starting in the later 1950's. Info: Dave Morrison

RULE: 294 TRAIN ORDER signal means to pick up orders when flashing red.

There were 2 types of train orders: Form 19, which could be grabbed on the fly, and Form 31, which had to be signed for in person by a crew member conductor or engineer (typically the conductor went in for it), who then had to share it with the other crew (C or E). The flashing red light is an indication that the tower operator has a 31 for the crew to sign for. In earlier times, a red lantern would be displayed. If it were a 19, the operator would have a yellow lantern displayed, and that would signal the engineer and conductor to prepare to grab orders on the fly from the op's hoop or V-stick.

Form 19 at PD:
Image

Form 31 at PD
Image
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Re: PD Tower position light signalling

Postby 452 Card » Sun Sep 21, 2014 5:58 am

Steve-
The only aspects displayed at the low home eastward from the North Track aka North Siding were stop signal and restricting.
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Re: PD Tower position light signalling

Postby nyandw » Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:46 pm

452 Card wrote:Steve- The only aspects displayed at the low home eastward from the North Track aka North Siding were stop signal and restricting.


452 Card: Thank you for the clarification. Image Dwarf "low home" signal aspect STOP, RESTRICTING would be diagonal 45°

Image

With all the great help provided; I have thus far:

1. The PRR position light has aspects: clear, approach, stop (vertical, 45°, horizontal)
2. The flashing red is for orders
2. The three diagonal 45° lights below are for restricted movements
3. The dwarf is stop/restricted

Image
C420 #223 and the "Cannonball" getting orders westbound at PD Tower 1972 Photo/Archive: Dave Keller

Nice guys, I gather it just wasn't "stop and go", but a far more complex sequence of rules/movements/etc. to move trains/prevent accidents/and operate the highest volume passenger commuter railroad in the world. Best
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Re: PD Tower position light signalling

Postby 452 Card » Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:01 am

Steve,
Not trying to be a nudge, but Division Street east of South Ocean Avenue becomes Baker Street. Its a Patchogueian thing. There are also excellent maps on Arrts Arrchives, and Emory maps too that show the Patchogue area in its heyday (including the Baileys Mill siding and the REA dock.
In another life, I was told by a long-retired ago freight trainmaster that were 54 switches to various sidings in the area, which would have been the forties and fifties during his tenure.
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Re: PD Tower position light signalling

Postby Blockhead98 » Tue Sep 23, 2014 9:21 am

It's nice to see PD before it was leaning over.
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Re: PD Tower position light signalling

Postby nyandw » Tue Sep 23, 2014 4:38 pm

452 Card: Thank you for the correction. :-)

Image
A super shot of Patchogue Yard c.1920's and Bailey's Mill complex.

A few photos/maps of Patchogue:
http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/patchogue/patchogue.htm

I had counted roughly 45 locations to spot cars, not including roundhouse coal, gondolas, oil cars, etc. in its glory c.1925.
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Re: PD Tower position light signalling

Postby Head-end View » Tue Sep 23, 2014 7:11 pm

nyandw; try a Google search on the subject of railroad signals or even Pennsylvania Railroad signals. You might be able to find a chart showing all the signal aspects and rule definitions. You can also try to purchase the book Railroad Signaling by Brian Solomon. It has charts of Pennsy, B&O and NORAC signals. Probably find it the same way.
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Re: PD Tower position light signalling

Postby nyandw » Tue Sep 23, 2014 7:47 pm

Head-end View wrote:nyandw; try a Google search on the subject of railroad signals or even Pennsylvania Railroad signals. You might be able to find a chart showing all the signal aspects and rule definitions. You can also try to purchase the book Railroad Signaling by Brian Solomon. It has charts of Pennsy, B&O and NORAC signals. Probably find it the same way.


Thank you. That's were I got the text/diagrams from. Good stuff.
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Re: PD Tower position light signalling

Postby DaveBarraza » Wed Sep 24, 2014 7:59 pm

452 Card: Thank you for the clarification. Image Dwarf "low home" signal aspect STOP, RESTRICTING would be diagonal 45°


Rule 290 is Diagonal 45° Lower Quadrant (Diagonal "pointing down")

That would be to differentiate it from dwarves (not this particular one) that could display
Rule 288 Diagonal 45° UPPER quadrant (Diagonal "pointing up")
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Re: PD Tower position light signalling

Postby Jersey_Mike » Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:26 pm

Was the line between PD and MS run under Rule 261 or was it manual block? If it was manual block why would the eastbound mast signal display Clear. I thought that would provide a Clear Block indication.

https://www.acm.jhu.edu/~sthurmovik/Rai ... r-hoop.jpg

Also I have seen the TO light flash for trains receiving orders by hoop.
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Re: PD Tower position light signalling

Postby ExCon90 » Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:50 pm

Jersey_Mike wrote:Was the line between PD and MS run under Rule 261 or was it manual block? If it was manual block why would the eastbound mast signal display Clear. I thought that would provide a Clear Block indication.

https://www.acm.jhu.edu/~sthurmovik/Rai ... r-hoop.jpg

Also I have seen the TO light flash for trains receiving orders by hoop.


The neutral light on the bottom arm was used to display Clear Block. I think that in the linked photo I can just about make out the neutral light lit.
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