Old Mineola to West Hempstead line

Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.

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Old Mineola to West Hempstead line

Postby pineywoodsman » Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:49 am

From enough reading I know that there was once a line that used to run south from Mineola to West Hempstead, and the Right of Way seems easily defined the whole route by power lines. But these do not look like the typical power lines LIPA (now PSEG) uses for regular transmission & distribution, and look more like those used by the LIRR and appear to be DC. They run south from the Mineola substation (by Nassau) down through Garden City. Looking at the poles it appears they're owned by the LIRR, perhaps so is the R.O.W. I'm not sure. I'm curious as to what power they carry. I've always assumed the RR has a dedicated feed from the grid for signals & 3rd rail, but that's not always easily visible. But I'm taking a wild guess they're using the former ROW to get power to Mineola from West Hempstead, where there's even larger substations.
Here's a google streetview of the poles I'm talking about, some appear to be quite old.
http://goo.gl/maps/d4gmG

And photos I took recently of the poles as they cross Old Country Road & head south.
Image

Image

Anyway I appreciate any answers...always been curious about this line. I'd love to see some old photos of when it was in operation.
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Re: Old Mineola to West Hempstead line

Postby lirr42 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:52 am

Mr. Woodsman, Mr. Lynch's Trains Are Fun.com site is a great place to look for historic photos of trains operating along the right of way. I will try to find and post some specific photos tomorrow afternoon when I have a little more time (if someone does not beat me too it!).
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Re: Old Mineola to West Hempstead line

Postby vince » Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:35 pm

While not pictures of the line I have recently completed modelling all the line from Mineola through the old Hempstead Crossing tower location to Hempstead / West Hempstead /Garden City area.

Pictures here: http://www.trainsim.com/vbts/album.php?albumid=248

There are MANY pictures and maps at the Trainsarefun http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/lirrtr ... ckmaps.htm

And not to forget Arrts Archives http://arrts-arrchives.com/index.html

that I used in researching to model this area of the LIRR.

Enjoy!
Back to pounding spikes . . . . .
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Re: Old Mineola to West Hempstead line

Postby BobLI » Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:11 pm

The power lines are high voltage AC not DC. The power company uses a lot of abandoned ROW to string wires. The abandoned Central Branch is one example. The LIRR as far as I know never used overhead power lines to transmitt DC. They have used heavy bus cables on the ground surrounded by protection to go from a section of DC rail to DC rail. I remember seeing a pic of that on the web sites for the branch you are asking about, or it may have been another branch, not sure.
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Re: Old Mineola to West Hempstead line

Postby LB » Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:12 pm

For the trackside pole question, take a look at the topic from a few years ago on this forum. Link Below.

viewtopic.php?f=63&t=80017&p=909559&hilit=trackside+poles#p909559
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Re: Old Mineola to West Hempstead line

Postby pineywoodsman » Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:11 am

The power lines are high voltage AC not DC. The power company uses a lot of abandoned ROW to string wires. The abandoned Central Branch is one example. The LIRR as far as I know never used overhead power lines to transmitt DC.


Not so sure about that. First of all the poles shown have 2 sets of 2 cables, AC power is three phase and has 3 wires. And I've seen overhead signal power cables on the Ronkonkoma line along the ROW, it's a pole line with 2 wires and suspension insulators. I've seen them in other places along the tracks too. Yes former (and current) ROW's are used by the power company as well, but there's often an underbuild that has feeders for DC signal power. I've also seen some 3 phase lines (34.5Kv?) that run along the Babylon line that go right to LIRR substations where they're converted to DC. The signal cables are probably buried but the power lines are still above ground like much of our power system is here on LI. My best guess as for the former Mineola-West Hempstead connection is that it's used by the power company & for LIRR power. That's just a guess though.
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Re: Old Mineola to West Hempstead line

Postby pineywoodsman » Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:16 am

LB wrote:For the trackside pole question, take a look at the topic from a few years ago on this forum. Link Below.

viewtopic.php?f=63&t=80017&p=909559&hilit=trackside+poles#p909559


Well that does clear up some things. So the DC lines are actually for traction power then?
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

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Re: Old Mineola to West Hempstead line

Postby Adirondacker » Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:25 pm

Volts times Amps equals watts.
The wires aren't big enough to light a train, at 600 volts DC, much less power the motors. Not that miles, away you'd get 600 volts out of the wires.
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Re: Old Mineola to West Hempstead line

Postby nyandw » Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:35 pm

lirr42 wrote:Mr. Woodsman, Mr. Lynch's Trains Are Fun.com site is a great place to look for historic photos of trains operating along the right of way. I will try to find and post some specific photos tomorrow afternoon when I have a little more time (if someone does not beat me too it!).


http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/mineola/mineola.htm

Image
CLP station (at the right: shelter shed in distance) looking north from track level. The Mitchel Field shuttle is laying up in the center and a Hempstead-bound train is approaching at the left. You see the switch points aligned for the Hempstead branch in the bottom of the photo; straight went on to West Hempstead. Info: Dave Keller
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Re: Old Mineola to West Hempstead line

Postby Crabman1130 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:27 pm

Why would the RR give up the connection between CLP and West Hempstead?
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Re: Old Mineola to West Hempstead line

Postby MACTRAXX » Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:44 pm

Everyone: Back in the late 1980s I walked this ROW from CLP Station to WH following this pole line and as I recall it was not easy
remembering that I had to climb over at least one fence but interestingly this ROW was preserved to a large extent and I walked thru
a minimum of private property...I note the Google Map post showing this still intact today line as mentioned...

The north-south ROW from Mineola to CLP can also be followed and the former track location marks property boundaries today...

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Re: Old Mineola to West Hempstead line

Postby ErnieM » Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:53 pm

Crabman1130 wrote:Why would the RR give up the connection between CLP and West Hempstead?


Because it has nothing to do with the prime directive: get people into NYC in the morning, and back out to LI in the afternoon.
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Re: Old Mineola to West Hempstead line

Postby keyboardkat » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:28 am

Crabman1130 wrote:Why would the RR give up the connection between CLP and West Hempstead?

I think the reason had to do with the fact that the state wanted the railroad to eliminate the grade crossings between CLP and WH, or maybe they wanted the railroad to install automatic gates, including the very wide crossing of Hempstead Turnpike. The expense was too great. These crossings were unprotected except by crossbuck signs, so a train movement had to be protected by flagmen.

Back in 1959, I was on an RDC fantrip, and we ran from Mineola down the Garden City Secondary to Hempstead Crossing. We had to stop and flag every grade crossing. We even stopped to talk to a man walking his dog on Stewart Avenue. Only the northeast leg of the Hempstead Crossing wye was still in existence, and we curved around onto the Central extension, facing east. The engineer changed ends and it was back to Jamaica via Garden City, along the Hempstead Branch. Floral Park was still at grade level then.
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Re: Old Mineola to West Hempstead line

Postby keyboardkat » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:37 am

BobLI wrote:The power lines are high voltage AC not DC. The power company uses a lot of abandoned ROW to string wires. The abandoned Central Branch is one example. The LIRR as far as I know never used overhead power lines to transmitt DC. They have used heavy bus cables on the ground surrounded by protection to go from a section of DC rail to DC rail. I remember seeing a pic of that on the web sites for the branch you are asking about, or it may have been another branch, not sure.

You can see these above-ground cables in the picture of the two trains at CLP. They are standing on insulators and are completely encased in wood.
Years ago, I saw these along the ROW of the north-south central track in the middle of the Hempstead Crossing wye. The track was long gone, but I assumed that these were third rails which had been left in place because they were necessary to the power circuits. They are also long gone. There is a parking lot there now.
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Re: Old Mineola to West Hempstead line

Postby railfaned » Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:09 pm

I have a question. Are there any photos of the line north of Stewart Ave? All the photos I've seen are either of Mineola or Hempstead Crossing. None of my 8 LIRR books have any photos of that section, nor have I seen any on line. I know there was a freight station and customers north of Stewart.
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