Speonk to Montauk signalization

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Speonk to Montauk signalization

Postby Frank » Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:32 am

I haven't been on the Montauk Branch in quite a while and I'm wondering if the LIRR has started work on the Speonk to Montauk signalization project. Have they started work lately?
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Re: Speonk to Montauk signalization

Postby SwingMan » Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:00 am

No, no, and no.
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Re: Speonk to Montauk signalization

Postby jhdeasy » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:02 am

Why spend the money on installing automatic block signals or CTC between Speonk and Montauk, when Manual Block appears to have worked well on this line for decades?

Is this improvement related to the federal mandate for Positive Train Control? I confess I don't know much about PTC other than a few things I read here and there.
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Re: Speonk to Montauk signalization

Postby Amtrak7 » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:51 am

jhdeasy wrote:Why spend the money on installing automatic block signals or CTC between Speonk and Montauk, when Manual Block appears to have worked well on this line for decades?

Is this improvement related to the federal mandate for Positive Train Control? I confess I don't know much about PTC other than a few things I read here and there.


Yes, as PTC is an overlay system to standard cab signals.
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Re: Speonk to Montauk signalization

Postby Backshophoss » Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:01 pm

The FRA doesn't like the MBS for passenger service,they disallowed the Distant switch signals last year,
along with killing off the waiver,forcing a speed downgrade to 59 mph.
The only remoted passing siding is JJD(aka MS)near Mastic- Shirley(mp 62.4)
True MBS exisits from the East limits Speonk(SK 3) to BLS MY(Montauk)
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Re: Speonk to Montauk signalization

Postby Frank » Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:13 pm

I went past Speonk today and noticed some trucks and equipment there. Is this in anyway related to the upcoming signal project?
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Re: Speonk to Montauk signalization

Postby lirr42 » Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:23 pm

Frank wrote:I went past Speonk today and noticed some trucks and equipment there. Is this in anyway related to the upcoming signal project?

I would imagine/hope so, but I can't be sure. The MTA's capital program dashboard doesn't give a clear picture, but from what it looks like, $26,888 thousand of the $49,907 thousand has been allocated to be spent in 2013, so it would lead me to believe that the majority of the work would be done sometime in 2013. I can't see signals ready to be tested when I peer off the edge of the Montauk Station platform, so I don't think we are anywhere close yet, but I hope the LIRR has been doing something.
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Re: Speonk to Montauk signalization

Postby SlackControl » Sat Oct 19, 2013 11:46 am

I've heard conflicting info about the plans for this off season. Either way though, the signals between Montauk and Speonk won't go live for another few years. But, the two rumors I heard were: 1) that the signals, including masts and the signals themselves, and powered switch machines, will be installed before the beginning of next summer. Or 2) that the signals were only ordered, and might not be installed until sometime mid to late 2014. The summer of 2012 saw work being done at Hampton Bay's (ND) and Southampton (SN) in which the trenches and conduits were put in for the cables, and some of the bases for the signals were installed. Back in 08, the same cables that were layed from Patchogue to Speonk were installed along the main track from Speonk to Montauk. Hopefully the first suggested rumor doesn't come true. That way we will have at least one more summer to video and photograph regular LIRR passenger trains meet at sidings with hand thrown switches, with no modern signals visible. The meets will still happen at SN next summer, but if the 1st rumor comes true, those videos and pictures will have the dark modern signals visible.

Frank wrote:I went past Speonk today and noticed some trucks and equipment there. Is this in anyway related to the upcoming signal project?


Speonk is a major facility for the LIRR, so there are usually a lot of railroad trucks there.
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Re: Speonk to Montauk signalization

Postby lirr42 » Sun Nov 10, 2013 2:22 pm

In the LIRR committee meeting notes that were released yesterday, the LIRR announced that Ansaldo STS USA (ASTS) will be awarded a $20,825,093 contract do design and implement signalization between Speonk and Montauk.

The project includes:
  • new interlockings at Hampton Bays and Southampton
  • new control points at Amagansett and Montauk
  • 38 grade crossing huts
  • converting existing switches at Westampton, Bridgehampton, East Hampton, and Amagansett to electric locks with derails
  • new ASC test loop at west end of Montauk station

It seems like the LIRR is trying to do things here "on the cheap" by only having interlockings at Hampton Bays (HB) and Southampton (SH). While it might make meets in the single-tracked territory easier during the summer, it reduces flexibility by not being able to shift meets to the other stations (as that happens rather frequently in the summer when the schedules go down the tubes).
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Re: Speonk to Montauk signalization

Postby THIRD AVENUE EL » Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:54 pm

What is a "control point" ?
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Re: Speonk to Montauk signalization

Postby MattW » Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:23 pm

THIRD AVENUE EL wrote:What is a "control point" ?

Basically an interlocking, it's where a switch or switches are controlled usually with some kind of conflicting routes being physically possible. A CP is usually differentiated from an interlocking by being remotely controlled rather than having a tower present at the site. I'm not a real railroader, so my explanation might not be complete. At a guess the new control points will simply be each end of a passing siding.
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Re: Speonk to Montauk signalization

Postby Amtrak7 » Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:30 pm

Westhampton being electric lock makes sense, since in order to use the siding one must bypass the station stop. But not interlocking the other sidings is a big mistake. See Greenlawn for an example.
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Re: Speonk to Montauk signalization

Postby lirr42 » Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:42 pm

MattW wrote:
THIRD AVENUE EL wrote:What is a "control point" ?

Basically an interlocking, it's where a switch or switches are controlled usually with some kind of conflicting routes being physically possible. A CP is usually differentiated from an interlocking by being remotely controlled rather than having a tower present at the site. I'm not a real railroader, so my explanation might not be complete. At a guess the new control points will simply be each end of a passing siding.

But Hampton Bays and Southampton are getting "interlockings" without having towers on site (as they will be controlled from BABYLON).
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Re: Speonk to Montauk signalization

Postby MattW » Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:12 pm

lirr42 wrote:
MattW wrote:
THIRD AVENUE EL wrote:What is a "control point" ?

Basically an interlocking, it's where a switch or switches are controlled usually with some kind of conflicting routes being physically possible. A CP is usually differentiated from an interlocking by being remotely controlled rather than having a tower present at the site. I'm not a real railroader, so my explanation might not be complete. At a guess the new control points will simply be each end of a passing siding.

But Hampton Bays and Southampton are getting "interlockings" without having towers on site (as they will be controlled from BABYLON).

Hrm, could just be an internal naming scheme then. Not sure what would set them apart without knowing more about their configuration. But a quick glance at Google Maps imagery doesn't suggest much difference. Hopefully we'll get an answer as I'd like to know the real difference myself!
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Re: Speonk to Montauk signalization

Postby Backshophoss » Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:46 pm

A "control point" can be as simple as 1 signal allowing access to the main track at "CP MY"(Montauk)to the the signals protecting
1 of the passing siding switches(CP East "BH")or a "hold" type signal at Amagasett(CP "AG").
All of the new signals are operated by a "control operator" at Babylon(untill a central DS console is built at JSCC in the future :wink: )
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