White Pot

Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.

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Re: White Pot

Postby Radioguy » Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:20 pm

By the way, NYCSubway.org - 63rd Drive and Wikipedia - 63rd Drive/Rego Pk have conflicting information on whether or not the flying junction crossover is above or below the line when it heads to Whitepot.

Are there at least pictures of the wesbound bellmouth indicating an incline or decline?
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Re: White Pot

Postby ConstanceR46 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:04 pm

Now, theoretically, couldn't someone check if the tunnels existed using Ground Penetrating Radar? Rentals are a decent rate.
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Re: White Pot

Postby Radioguy » Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:52 am

These tunnels are accessible (by the MTA) from within the system though, right? Hasn't anyone spoken to anyone who's been in there?
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Re: White Pot

Postby DogBert » Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:18 am

I've been to both.

On Qns. blvd, there is a manhattan bound trackway that curves under the present four tracks. On the Queensbound side, there is only a bellmouth on the south tunnel wall. Both end at solid concrete walls. There is no tunnel from Qns. blvd to whitepot, only these two 'provisions'. This was IND status quo: build only the provisions, almost exclusively in locations where they wouldn't have to go back and re-do work.

At LIRR's whitepot, the manhattan bound track also ducks under the mainline and used to incline up to track level before that was all buried in dirt.
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Re: White Pot

Postby ConstanceR46 » Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:45 am

the IND were good at that sort of thing.

if only they'd gotten their way, then we'd be golden
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Re: White Pot

Postby Radioguy » Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:38 pm

DogBert wrote:On Qns. blvd, there is a manhattan bound trackway that curves under the present four tracks.


Thanks. Any clue where it terminated?

As for the NIMBYs in that area, I see that the Parks dept. has started showing kid's summer movies in that tiny park abutting Whitepot now. I can't help but think that wasn't wholly a public service. I'd bet on someone uttering "But the kids can't hear Captain Underpants!" at some future hearing on reactivation.
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Re: White Pot

Postby nyandw » Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:44 pm

White Pot: http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/rockawaybeachbranch/rockawaybeachbranch.htm 10% down the page.

Hee's the underjump:
http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/rockaw ... illips.jpg
White Pot Jct. underjump view NW 4/1965 Photo: Brad Phillips
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Re: White Pot

Postby Radioguy » Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:06 pm

nyandw wrote:White Pot: http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/rockawaybeachbranch/rockawaybeachbranch.htm 10% down the page.

Hee's the underjump:
http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/rockaw ... illips.jpg
White Pot Jct. underjump view NW 4/1965 Photo: Brad Phillips


No, you misunderstood. We're talking about the tunnel (provision) to Whitepot from the subway line. I've never seen pics of that tunnel that curves under, but DogBert seems to have actually seen it.
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Re: White Pot

Postby nyandw » Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:01 pm

Radioguy wrote:
nyandw wrote:White Pot: http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/rockawaybeachbranch/rockawaybeachbranch.htm 10% down the page.Hee's the underjump:http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/rockawaybeachbranch/Whitepot-Jct_Far-Rockaway-Branch-underjump_viewNW_4-1965_BradPhillips.jpg
White Pot Jct. underjump view NW 4/1965 Photo: Brad Phillips


No, you misunderstood. We're talking about the tunnel (provision) to Whitepot from the subway line. I've never seen pics of that tunnel that curves under, but DogBert seems to have actually seen it.


Got it, thank you.
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Re: White Pot

Postby Kilgore Trout » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:25 pm

If I remember correctly from RFW rides, the Queens-bound bellmouth is some distance after the station, so I would expect that the bellmouths lead to 65th Rd, which would be the straightest line to the LIRR without underpinning any buildings. It's unlikely they would have been constructed any further than the south side of Queens Boulevard.
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Re: White Pot

Postby Radioguy » Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:17 pm

Kilgore Trout wrote:If I remember correctly from RFW rides, the Queens-bound bellmouth is some distance after the station, so I would expect that the bellmouths lead to 65th Rd, which would be the straightest line to the LIRR without underpinning any buildings. It's unlikely they would have been constructed any further than the south side of Queens Boulevard.


It's the Manhattan-bound tunnel that would seem to be more extensive. Not just a bellmouth, but a curve under Qns Blvd. I could see how that might end at the same point as the Qns-bound bellmouth, but I had heard/read it was more expansive.

Also, I want to clarify that I'm specifically asking about these bellmouths/tunnels/provisions to White Pot, which are not those that are present on the other Eastern-Qns stops on the line for the added outer tunnel and tracks once destined for LIRR service at those stations. Those bellmouths are easily visible at the ends of those stations. I would expect the Whitepot ones to branch off those added tunnels around 63rd, and not be so easily visible as the others without access to the outer tunnels, but feel free to correct that assumption! :)
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Re: White Pot

Postby andrewjw » Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:34 pm

VSR's track map annotation 35 also indicates that a Manhattan-bound tunnel curving under all four in-use tracks, rising, and joining the Manhattan-bound local track JUST before 63 Dr was constructed.
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Re: White Pot

Postby Radioguy » Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:40 pm

andrewjw wrote:VSR's track map annotation 35 also indicates that a Manhattan-bound tunnel curving under all four in-use tracks, rising, and joining the Manhattan-bound local track JUST before 63 Dr was constructed.


Can you point me to that?
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Re: White Pot

Postby Kilgore Trout » Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:19 am

Radioguy wrote:Also, I want to clarify that I'm specifically asking about these bellmouths/tunnels/provisions to White Pot, which are not those that are present on the other Eastern-Qns stops on the line for the added outer tunnel and tracks once destined for LIRR service at those stations. Those bellmouths are easily visible at the ends of those stations. I would expect the Whitepot ones to branch off those added tunnels around 63rd, and not be so easily visible as the others without access to the outer tunnels, but feel free to correct that assumption! :)


I'm not sure which you mean here. The only ones I can think of are:

* Roosevelt upper level (which was only a subway connection, only one branch of that would have connected to the LIRR)
* Woodhaven (not sure if these bellmouths were part of the original tunnel or if this was a totally new proposal in the 1968 plan)
* 63rd Drive
* Parsons/Archer upper level pointing to the Atlantic branch

Were there others?
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