LIRR History (Valley Stream) and Surrounding areas.

Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.

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Re: LIRR History (Valley Stream) and Surrounding areas.

Postby Sir Ray » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:49 am

EdM wrote:
Sir Ray wrote:Maybe some railroad.netter can buy it and remodel it to resemble the original Rum Junction station.

OR:Maybe someone can buy it and reopen the Green Hotel, improve the recreational areas of VS and continue its reputation as a bedroom community...

The Sunrise Highway Car Wash location? There's barely enough land for the dumpster and trash bin storage area of a modern hotel, let alone an hotel itself (I don't think you could even get a bed and breakfast there). A modern hotel would be more the size of the "Serota" building (that six story white office building fronting on Sunrise a few blocks east of Rockaway) - witness the Holiday Inn Expresses just down the road in Lynbrook.
Look we got the Boy Scout's plaque marking the general area of the former station, what more could you ask for?
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Re: LIRR History (Valley Stream) and Surrounding areas.

Postby EdM » Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:02 am

The Green Hotel went from the road up to the RR xpress sidings to Sunrise and I have no idea how far west. It had a porch and a parrot. I have not been up that road since the Freedom Train was there in (about) 1948..
de k2lck..spinner of antennas,tall tales and some outright lies...
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Re: LIRR History (Valley Stream) and Surrounding areas.

Postby paugom » Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:02 pm

Hi all,

Does anyone know of any collections of photos of the Gibson station (particularly early on). I'm actually a direct descendant of William R. Gibson (my great great grandfather) and I've recently started to pull together some family pictures, etc and found this site while searching for information about the Gibson train station. Neat little tidbit about the neighborhood, near the intersection of Rockaway Ave and Peninsula Blvd, there are two streets named after his two sons (Roland, my great grandfather, and Frederick). Thanks for any help!

-PJ
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Re: LIRR History (Valley Stream) and Surrounding areas.

Postby Amy Bentley » Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:29 am

Hi,

I just joined this forum and I am happy to be connected to other like-minded railroad enthusiasts. Thanks for accepting me into the group. I am busy reading everyone's posts, and hope to respond to some of them soon.

-amy
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Re: LIRR History (Valley Stream) and Surrounding areas.

Postby Sir Ray » Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:00 pm

Amy Bentley wrote:Hi,
I just joined this forum and I am happy to be connected to other like-minded railroad enthusiasts. Thanks for accepting me into the group. I am busy reading everyone's posts, and hope to respond to some of them soon.
-amy
The Railroad.net forums? They can be a lot of fun and a good source of history. Heck, we (well, mostly other, more knowledgeable folks than me) finally pieced together the history of the erstwhile Dashing Dan's Diner that was situated in the LIRR Morris Park shops, and from whence in Woodmere it came before that.
Just avoid the minutia threads, if you don't go for that sort of stuff.

Anyway, Reviewing this thread, I'm kind of surprised it didn't come up in this thread before, but in addition to the 1914 historical map, there is an Isometric drawing ("Aero-View") of Valley Stream in 1924 available on-line (you can zoom in to a reasonable extent). I first saw this Map/drawing many decades ago hanging in the waiting room of Wond-A-Rama Tires & Alignment on Rockaway South of Sunrise, and it's still there (or was of last year).

I also noted some of my responses in the thread, including the one when I took a walk to confirm the route of the stream along Cornwall Ave. (NOT A SUMP - a) as the Isometric shows, it was a stream there that was eventually channelized, and b) if we can call that wide Los Angeles concreted drainage ditch a River...). I remember that walk and writing the response quite clear - then I saw I took that walk over 5 years ago....
It's astounding. Time is fleeting. Madness takes it's toll...
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Re: LIRR History (Valley Stream) and Surrounding areas.

Postby nyandw » Sat Jan 23, 2016 6:47 pm

Welcome, Amy. :-) Sir Ray, thanks for posting the link. I had saved historicaerials.com, but forgot all about this site! Being a bit more familiar with the 1906 Patchogue map (as it applies to the creation of all these type maps) these where created by a team that walked the streets and drew the buildings, houses, industries, rail, roads, etc. with the appropriate notes. The material was then taken back and complied into the 3D aerial style as the finished product.

Truly a remarkable achievement as they are very accurate. My previous 1845 house in Patchogue with an addition added c. 1880+ was depicted accurately as to the windows placements, roof lines, chimney location, placement on the lot, the surrounding houses, etc. :-)

Perhaps some Valley Stream folks might have similar views to share as to what they found?
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Re: LIRR History (Valley Stream) and Surrounding areas.

Postby Sir Ray » Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:01 am

nyandw wrote:Truly a remarkable achievement as they are very accurate. My previous 1845 house in Patchogue with an addition added c. 1880+ was depicted accurately as to the windows placements, roof lines, chimney location, placement on the lot, the surrounding houses, etc. :-)

Perhaps some Valley Stream folks might have similar views to share as to what they found?

Well, I'll chime in as my parents and I moved to Valley Stream c1974, and I've lived in the area ever since (over 4 decades - how did that happen?) Spot checking some of the older buildings I know by sight and via Google (now with the funky tilt feature), even after 90+ intervening years they look reasonably close (the isometric aero-view is obviously not blue-print level, but still matches reasonably well). Of course, since it's a south-west looking map, things in that far direction are a bit less distinct. There is at least one error on the Aero-View, the E-W road now called Roosevelt Ave. is listed as Rockaway Ave., when it should be Rockaway Rd. (I guess it was named after FDR, not Teddy). I recall the large fenced-in complex on the NE corner of Rockaway & Merrick was supposed to be a lumber yard which had burned down - that's the current site of CVS.
Bizarrely, the house on the SE corner of Grove and Maple is labeled Stone Hill Farms, Inc. - searching on-line just yields lots of vague links from sites which purport to be the new "Yellow Pages", but aren't. Oh well, maybe that's the house where (according to my friend a decade ago) they raised alligators in the basement ("The guy's friend told me!" "Did you see the alligators?" "No, but he wouldn't lie about that!").
I see the east leg of the Far Rockaway Wye is gone by 1924, but the Aero-view does show the "LI Traction Co." Jamaica Ave. streetcar route crossing the LIRR on a trestle.

It takes a while to orient yourself south of the LIRR, until you realize that Sunrise Highway follows the former route of Brooklyn Ave. east till Rockaway, then jogs NE until it parallels the LIRR a little distance south, and then follows that alignment East into Lynbrook. Brooklyn Ave. still exists from Rockaway to Satterie (site of the New Honda Dealer). Scranton North of the LIRR is now all Hawthrone Ave., I guess Sunrise occupies a segment of the old Scranton ROW up to Horton Ave., where Scranton continues along it's long-time route SE to East Rockaway. Judging from the Historic Aerials site topos, Sunrise Highway was build immediately Post WWII, listed on the 1947 topo (but not the 1945). Thank goodness they did build it, as I use Sunrise Highway almost every day (and I am darned peeved it's not a limited access with service roads, like it is east of Lindenhurst - that would have saved days of wasted commute time over my life. GRRRRR!)

Looking at that 1914 atlas page one more time, all I can say is that Valley Streamers should salute the Windsor Land & Improvement Co, which appears to have developed most of Valley Stream north of Merrick and a good chunk south...
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Re: LIRR History (Valley Stream) and Surrounding areas.

Postby MADDOG » Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:16 am

An excellent source of information and photos should be the Valley Stream Historical Society at the Pagan Fletcher House.
Always look to the local Historical Societies for information as this is what they do. Catalog the history of their town.
Almost, but not all towns on Long Island (including Brooklyn and Queens) have these groups/organizations.
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Re: LIRR History (Valley Stream) and Surrounding areas.

Postby Amy Bentley » Mon Jan 25, 2016 2:58 pm

The Valley Stream Historical Society has a Facebook page - Valley Stream of Yesteryear. If you go to that page, there is an album dedicated to the LIRR.

Gere is the link:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 779&type=1
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Re:

Postby Amy Bentley » Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:02 pm

Sir Ray wrote:
EdM wrote:well, it was more remains than tracks, and the clew that got the ten year old boy interested was the quality of the bridge here in the woods, 'twas one of those bridges with three or so culvert pipes and graded well above the grade of the creek and the surrounding terrain.... and the grading of what had to be a "road" running east and west here in the woods...cause the terrain level was destroyed when they made the "village green" and bandstand sometime in the fifties, when I wuz filling sandbags fer the army (ours I think) in El Paso..... Ed

Hmm, remember that directly north of the LIRR (Montauk Branch) in Valley Stream and Lynbrook (and RVC too..) ran the 'pipeline', which used to supply Queens with water (from Freeport, I believe) . NYC owned this easement for decades, even after the pipeline ceased to carry water, only selling it in the 1980s (about the time that Valley Stream removed the part of the pipeline crossing the stream that leads to Mill Brook, and replaced it with a small pedestrian bridge). The Pipeline is the reason that S. Franklin (I think it's south Franklin - I only drive on it every day, and never look at the Street Names) has that steep grade directly North of the Valley Stream Station...

From Newsday:
http://www.newsday.com/community/guide/ ... navigation
1) it was Brooklyn, not Queens (well, Valley Stream was a part of Queens at the time...)
2.) They said the pipline ran under Sunrise Highway, but I am positive that the section in Valle Stream/Lynbrook ran north of the LIRR (and hence North of Sunrise). The first reseviour eventually became Hempstead Lake, and as the pipeline was pushed further east a pumping station was build in Freeport (hence my earlier misconception about freeport being the source of water - sources as far east as Massapequa were used)


Ray, Ed - I am familiar with the VS Village Green. The Green is located between Hicks Street and Central Avenue. The steep grade is located there (as well as to the west on Franklin Avenue). There is an exposed pipe on the western edge of the Village Green. Do you think that pipe is the actual pipeline, or a culvert pipe that used to lead to the north/south stream that cuts through the Green? I will attempt to post a photo of the pipe I am referring to. Thanks, amy
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Re: LIRR History (Valley Stream) and Surrounding areas.

Postby Amy Bentley » Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:34 pm

workextra wrote:With regards to the Pump station in Baldwin. Does anyone know if the old sand stone with the name carved out was salvaged before during or after the demolition. It would only bee an atrocity to have loose the carved sand stone besides the whole building, which was fire damaged and badly vandalized .
The stone read If I remember correctly, "Brooklyn Water Works".

As far as the pipeline in Valley Stream, Just north of the elevated railroad tracks on the far west end of the elevated structure by the station There appears to be a pipe or what seems like a pipe exposed on the walking path to the village green.
What's the odds that this is the pipe of the pipeline?
What baffles me is that this pipe is high and is not visible crossing the stream. Does it duck under it?
Immediately North/West of the bridge over the stream on Valley Stream blvd that is scheduled to be replaced there is a small brick building that I was told houses a pump. Was this part of a dam that was used for the Brooklyn Water Works?
I know it's not railroad but it's runs parallel to the LIRR Montauk branch so it's related, The Pipe paralleling the railroads Right Of Way.


Is this the pipe you are referring to?

https://valleystream.govoffice.com/vertical/Sites/%7BBC0696FB-5DB8-4F85-B451-5A8D9DC581E3%7D/uploads/Pipeline_2.jpg
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Re: LIRR History (Valley Stream) and Surrounding areas.

Postby nyandw » Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:43 pm

MADDOG wrote:An excellent source of information and photos should be the Valley Stream Historical Society at the Pagan Fletcher House.
Always look to the local Historical Societies for information as this is what they do. Catalog the history of their town. Almost, but not all towns on Long Island (including Brooklyn and Queens) have these groups/organizations. MADDOG


A good point and each one differs in philosophy and scope. The VStream group has that nice section as Amy indicates. Forget Islip as all they're interested in is real estate values of homes and churches. Patchogue his little to offer, thus it is dependent on the Society.. (Obvious point, I guess) :wink:
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Re: LIRR History (Valley Stream) and Surrounding areas.

Postby Amy Bentley » Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:55 am

workextra wrote:On the West Hempstead branch viaduct above Veterans bus company, The structure is double track. Only the south "east" track is used which is the single track West Hempstead branch branch, The north "west" track is the freight drop off. It was for Long Island Coal Co, Or Valley Stream Coal Co, I forget which. Till this day you can still the pulley system and it's wire cable in addition to the coal shoots. The real bonus is the amount of coal that is still up there. On the above linked map dragged down, You can see above the scrap dealer, the black spot on the unused north "west" track, This is the coal shoot and the remaining coal. Continuing further down the branch, The switch to lumber yard is long removed.

Back to the waterway discussion.
The steam that ran from Hopples, North into the lake "the beach" then under the red bridge in the park. now a stream again it travels north of Hendrickson Ave. (State Park, Roomer has it was this land was once owned by the Fletcher family???), Just north of Hendrickson Ave. at the entrance of the state park a small creek flows into this stream from the west.
The larger stream Parrnell Corona Ave, goes under the S.S.Parkway and as far north as Arlington Ave in Franklin Sq. (Behind Carvel.).
The R.O.W of this stream is visible for another 2 block north to Park Avenue. Where it becomes completely buried.


Work Extra - I am interested in the Valley Stream Coal Co. you referenced. I would like to see the shoots and pulley system. I couldn't find them on Google Map, however. Could you give me the cross streets the old coal yard were close to? I will look for them the next time I visit VS. Thank you, amy
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Re: LIRR History (Valley Stream) and Surrounding areas.

Postby Sir Ray » Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:02 pm

Amy Bentley wrote:Work Extra - I am interested in the Valley Stream Coal Co. you referenced. I would like to see the shoots and pulley system. I couldn't find them on Google Map, however. Could you give me the cross streets the old coal yard were close to? I will look for them the next time I visit VS. Thank you, amy

This link to a Google Book preview might help.
"Dickel Incorporated Quality Coal, Coke, and Fuel Oil was located on the north side of East Hawthrone Avenue, just east of the West Hempstead branch....". It has an image of the coal silos from 1960.

The only problem with this is that that location is a few blocks south of where I think Work Extra placed the unloading equipment, and on the East track of the W. Hempstead Branch, not the discontinuous West Track.
The book that's from was written by Mr. Florio, with help from the Valley Stream Historical Society, so you probably are somewhat familiar with it.
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Re: LIRR History (Valley Stream) and Surrounding areas.

Postby nyandw » Tue Jan 26, 2016 7:05 pm

Image
1929 Emery map east of Rockaway Rd. Valley Stream Coal & Supply Co. later Scranton & Lehigh Coal Co. then Dickel Inc. below.

Image

P.S. VALLEY STREAM: February 5th, 1933 opening day of elevation
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