LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

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Re: LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Postby MattAmity90 » Tue May 31, 2016 11:27 pm

What are they doing to the Main Street crossing with the barrel in the crossing?
This station is Babylon, this is the train to Penn Station. Stopping at: Lindenhurst, Copiague, Amityville, Massapequa Park, Massapequa, Seaford, Wantagh, Bellmore, Merrick, Freeport, Baldwin, Rockville Centre, Lynbrook, Valley Stream, Jamaica, Kew Gardens, Forest Hills, Woodside, Penn Station.
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Re: LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Postby bellstbarn » Wed Jun 01, 2016 9:17 am

Maybe the barrels and cones are safety measures, to keep southbound vehicles from veering off the roadway at the crossing. In my opinion, the Main Street crossing should be eliminated immediately with the strongest of barriers. With GPS errors and other drivers' errors, there is too much danger of road vehicles fouling the tracks or switches.
---
On my first photo above, showing Nassau Tower, you might see the sign warning pedestrians not to cross the tracks along the west side of Main Street. Pedestrians are directed to the "new" pedestrian gates to west of the tower. The barrels and cones may have been left there for a similar reason.
----
Someplace on the mta.info site there might be a map of what is planned for Main Street. The information display in the Platform B waiting room has some placards displaying proposals.
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Re: LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Postby num1hendrickfan » Sat Jun 04, 2016 11:46 am

It's slated to be eliminated with the coming of the 3rd track, in fact if you stop by Platform B during the hours of operation you can pick-up a booklet that showcases the proposals for the various grade crossings along the mainline. Of particular interest is the proposal for Main Street in Mineola that closes the crossing, tears down Nassau tower and replaces the structures there with a parking lot and pedestrian overpass. The crossing to the immediate east has many proposals, best among them being a tunnel under both the Mainline and Oyster Bay branches with re-alignment of the roadway being proposed in multiple options. I'm not particularly sure if that information is available on mta.info but i know you can get more information at amodernli.com
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Re: LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Postby MACTRAXX » Sat Jun 04, 2016 3:02 pm

BSB and Everyone:

In the past week I rode the Main Line route round trip twice and visited the New Hyde Park, Floral Park and Bellerose Stations on an afternoon during the rush period...

After taking a look at your pictures I wanted to see for myself how the third track routing would run on this current plan - especially between Floral Park and New Hyde Park.

I noticed signs placed by opponents of the Third Track Project by a group titled "Citizens Against Rail Expansion" - They had no web address and only a phone number:
(516)775-6849 listed on their signs...

The Queens Interlocking-Floral Park section is most interesting since it looks like a switch will be added just east of the FP island Platform B to make the westbound track
off the Hempstead Branch reversible in that segment. There may be minimal alterations necessary at FP on the east end of Platform B and no change for Bellerose...

We had a recent topic about the "windows" when both tracks are used during weekday rush hours that was titled "# of Inbound AM/Outbound PM Peak Trains" by "NimbyKiller"...

There are 15 trains scheduled west on the opposite track in the AM rush hour and the "window" looks to be around 1 hour 10 minutes in duration...
The PM Peak eastbound "window" is shorter and has more variables but looks to be about 40 minutes...
I asked questions about this subject that were answered well by other LIRR Forum members...
See: viewforum.php?f=63&t=162030

I wanted to mention your picture #1 of Nassau Tower showing the south and east sides of the building - which looks to be in sound condition. After a talk with a fellow LIST-NRHS
Chapter Member who brought up the subject after noticing that the Tower stands directly in the proposed third track ROW I will ask: Will Nassau Tower be preserved in any way?
Is it structurally sound enough to be moved? If the LIRR does not have a need for NT can a rail preservation group such as OBRM or RMLI assist in any way?
If it is not and it can not be preserved it will probably suffer the same fate as Patchogue's PD Tower which was demolished - Nassau Tower looks to be in much better condition then
PD was before that Tower was closed. In any case hopefully artifacts such as Nassau's Model Board are saved by somebody...

After noticing that the proposed Third Track would "shift sides" between Mineola and Carle Place more then likely that the "path of least resistance" is being used and it will be
easier to add on the south side between Floral Park and east of Mineola especially with provisions already built at the Herricks Road and Roslyn Road crossing eliminations being good examples...
The North Side from W of Carle Place into W of Hicksville (the Wantagh Parkway overpass) will be more adaptable for the new track on that east segment...

The web addresses: http://www.aModernLI.com -and- http://www.righttrackforlongisland.com The positives for Long Island far outweigh the negatives and this plan should
prevail over the shortsightedness of the NIMBY and BANANA opponents...

MACTRAXX
Last edited by MACTRAXX on Sat Jun 04, 2016 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Postby num1hendrickfan » Sat Jun 04, 2016 8:20 pm

MACTRAXX wrote:I noticed signs placed by opponents of the Third Track Project by a group titled "Citizens Against Rail Expansion" - they had no web address and only a phone number:
(516)775-6849 listed on their signs...

Apparently that number belongs to some law office, I guess a bunch of yuppie lawyers think they can get enough businesses or people to complain. Not gonna happen this time as times have changed and it's obvious the 3rd track is a necessity. I'd encourage individuals to call them during operating hours and explain the benefits of a 3rd track and attempt to get businesses to do the same, maybe if they get enough calls they'll drop their silly campaign.
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Re: LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Postby MattAmity90 » Sun Jun 05, 2016 6:08 am

I also heard they are redoing the sidewalks and adding bicycle lane I think. Making it handicap accessible too for the street.
This station is Babylon, this is the train to Penn Station. Stopping at: Lindenhurst, Copiague, Amityville, Massapequa Park, Massapequa, Seaford, Wantagh, Bellmore, Merrick, Freeport, Baldwin, Rockville Centre, Lynbrook, Valley Stream, Jamaica, Kew Gardens, Forest Hills, Woodside, Penn Station.
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Re: LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Postby spokes32 » Tue Jun 07, 2016 12:15 am

EuroStar wrote:The currently four tracked section to Floral Park can support quite a bit more service than in currently sees. The Heampstead trains are nowhere close to saturating the south two tracks. Hempstead and OysterBay may see no gains in service, but there is no way they will see reductions in service.


There may not be a decrease in service along the Hempstead line but the potential certainly exists depending on the final track configuration.

The 4 tracks between Queens Interlocking and Floral Park are split between two Mainline tracks to the north and two Hempstead tracks to the south. While the Hempstead line currently has plenty of capacity along those two tracks, the conversion of the current westbound Hempstead track to an eastbound Mainline track does raise a few concerns, particularly at Bellerose Station which has one island platform between the two current Hempstead tracks.

I can see this being remedied a few ways. The ideal solution seems to be if the Hempstead/Mainline split is relocated back to Floral Park with Bellerose being reconstructed with two side platforms, though that expands the project bounds defined in the scoping document. More likely, the LIRR will modify Hempstead Line service at times to utilize the single southern track for both directions which seems likely to result in at least some Hempstead Line service reductions. But then again, some clever scheduling may be possible to alleviate these issues.
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Re: LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Postby BM6569 » Tue Jun 07, 2016 8:34 am

What were the original plans calling for? The decided to skip planned upgrades west of floral park to save money but I think another track was planned through there?
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Re: LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Postby MACTRAXX » Tue Jun 07, 2016 5:29 pm

S32:

After looking over the Third Track plan some more I was wondering myself how the westbound Hempstead Branch
track would be used from just east of Floral Park into Queens Interlocking - I believe that it will be either reversible
or the track directions get changed from Garden Interlocking (where Hempstead Branch double track ends) west to
Queens - meaning that the north track is used for eastbound trains and the south track for westbounds.

This would affect five stations in this manner:
Garden City, Nassau Boulevard and Stewart Manor: Minor changes such as moving the Ticket Vending Machines
at each station to the south side.
Floral Park - Could be a problem because Platform C may become the primary westbound commuting platform.
Platform B (the center island platform) is much better suited for commuters then Platform C is which is used by
eastbound trains on a line without a significant amount of local (Bellerose-Hempstead) ridership. Platform A only
sees 2 trains(?) westbound each day and would be adequate for additional future Main Line service increases.
Bellerose - unaffected - trains would stop at the opposite sides of the island platform. There is no need here for
any additional side platforms.

BM: I believe the original plan added a third track to the north at Floral Park - Platform A would have been removed
using this option. The revised plan means that Floral Park would only be altered by the addition of a switch and
elevated structure at the extreme east end of Platform B allowing the new track to parallel the Main Line away from
the two Hempstead Branch tracks.

When the Third Track is completed and added to the Main Line along with the coming major schedule changes for
the East Side Access Project what could result is that Hollis, Queens Village, Bellerose and Floral Park are served
by Main Line local trains that originate from either Hicksville or Farmingdale.

Another possibility is that Hollis and Queens Village get served primarily through their south platforms - perhaps in
both directions - eliminating the cross over move westbound trains make at Queens over at least three tracks.
This would only occur if Hempstead Branch trains continue to serve both stations in the future.

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Re: LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Postby Head-end View » Tue Jun 07, 2016 8:52 pm

BM6569, I believe the reason the extra track was cut back to begin east of Floral Park Station was not cost, but serious community opposition. Adding an extra track on the north side between Floral Park Sta. and Queens Interlocking would have put the trains practically in people's back yards. I think that was the reason the plan was changed, to reduce community/political opposition and make it easier to push the plan through.

Re: operational considerations for the Hempstead Branch, I think spokes32's prediction is the most likely. That Hempstead trains will probably only use the south track thru Floral Park/Bellerose and the current Hempstead westbound track will become the new eastbound main-line track.

MACTRAXX's idea for reversing the directional movement of the Hempstead Branch tracks is also very interesting and as he points out, could probably be done relatively easily on the Branch.
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Re: LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Postby nyandw » Sat Aug 13, 2016 11:44 pm

LIRR Main Line 3rd Track Project May 5, 2016 MTA Scoping Document George Chiasson Jr.

Image
links to (large file) in a linear format: http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/lirrtrackmaps/LIRR3DTK%20fixed%20%20May%205,%202016%20MTA%20Scoping%20Document%20George%20Chiasson%20Jr.%20composite.jpg

Image
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Re: LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Postby MattAmity90 » Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:48 am

Now that is awesome, with the detail. I did know one thing about the Mineola station and that was if the third track is installed the Eastbound platform would get converted into an island platform. So for the most part, the track that was once a local/express track becomes an express track that runs in between the two platforming tracks?
This station is Babylon, this is the train to Penn Station. Stopping at: Lindenhurst, Copiague, Amityville, Massapequa Park, Massapequa, Seaford, Wantagh, Bellmore, Merrick, Freeport, Baldwin, Rockville Centre, Lynbrook, Valley Stream, Jamaica, Kew Gardens, Forest Hills, Woodside, Penn Station.
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Re: LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Postby scopelliti » Sun Aug 14, 2016 9:11 am

One minor nit.... if the middle line is disabled for some reason, an eastbound Oyster Bay train can't easily get to Oyster Bay at Mineola. Looks like they need a crossover from the southern track to the middle track somewhere west of Mineola. There is one west of Bellerose, but that is a long way back.
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Re: LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Postby MattAmity90 » Sun Aug 14, 2016 10:31 am

Looking at the picture once again, are they just going to do away with the Nassau Interlocking crossover switch points that are found in between New Hyde Park and Merillon Avenue and just West of Carle Place along with the West end of Divide by the Wantagh State Parkway?
This station is Babylon, this is the train to Penn Station. Stopping at: Lindenhurst, Copiague, Amityville, Massapequa Park, Massapequa, Seaford, Wantagh, Bellmore, Merrick, Freeport, Baldwin, Rockville Centre, Lynbrook, Valley Stream, Jamaica, Kew Gardens, Forest Hills, Woodside, Penn Station.
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Re: LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Postby Norton » Sun Aug 14, 2016 11:20 am

Here's another question. The scoping document (Fig. 4) shows the new track on the north side of the existing tracks east of Mineola (I assume east of Roslyn Rd.) and on the south side west of there. How will this work? Will the new track connect up with track 1 on the north side and track 2 on the south side? None of the diagrams I've seen so far show this.
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