LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

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Re: LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Postby MattAmity90 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:14 am

Head-end View wrote:I think the LIRR will come to regret it, if they don't provide platform access for the center track. :(


I think the purpose of the project is to have the third track serve the Northern platform from Floral Park to Mineola, and the Southern track for Carle Place and Westbury. That means the current Track 2 becomes the center track, and they want one of the three tracks to be an express track (two Northern tracks at Valley Stream and Rosedale). If the ADA accessible pedestrian bridge wasn't built yet, then all five stations would be two island platforms to serve all 3 tracks ala Hicksville. Remember, not every single train from Ronkonkoma, Huntington, and Hicksville stops at Mineola, despite the fact they said they would convert Platform B from a side to an island platform.
This station is Babylon, this is the train to Penn Station. Stopping at: Lindenhurst, Copiague, Amityville, Massapequa Park, Massapequa, Seaford, Wantagh, Bellmore, Merrick, Freeport, Baldwin, Rockville Centre, Lynbrook, Valley Stream, Jamaica, Kew Gardens, Forest Hills, Woodside, Penn Station.
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Re: LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Postby Head-end View » Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:56 pm

Matt I really don't understand a lot of your post. The fact is that Mineola is too important a station, (especially at a junction of the Main-lIne with a branch) for all three tracks not to have platforms. I suspect the problem is not enough space for an island platform. But the day will come when there will be some service disruption and passengers will need to change from one train to another on adjacent tracks. And again I say, the LIRR will regret it if they don't provide this flexibility. :(
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Re: LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Postby Backshophoss » Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:13 pm

HEV,LIRR will most likely go with the Bridge Plate "route" at Mineola as needed. :( :( :(
There's just NO room for a center island platform,even a very thin platform!
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Re: LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Postby scopelliti » Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:45 pm

mineola.JPG
Mineola, south side showing the parking garage

Not enough room for three tracks and three platforms. They would have to rebuild that large fairly new parking garage and bridge.
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Re: LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Postby MattAmity90 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:15 am

Or what they could do is demolish the current Southern platform, and lay the third track where it stood. Then the new platform would be a little further South since the ADA pedestrian bridge's elevator shafts are on the Northern platform and inside the Intermodal Center to give some lee-way. Then take a look at the Mineola Boulevard overpass and the buttress that separates the East end of the Southern platform from Track 2.
This station is Babylon, this is the train to Penn Station. Stopping at: Lindenhurst, Copiague, Amityville, Massapequa Park, Massapequa, Seaford, Wantagh, Bellmore, Merrick, Freeport, Baldwin, Rockville Centre, Lynbrook, Valley Stream, Jamaica, Kew Gardens, Forest Hills, Woodside, Penn Station.
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Re: LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Postby mkm4 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:39 am

From: http://www.amodernli.com/wp-content/upl ... _FINAL.pdf Response 1-75

Construction of an island platform at Mineola would have residential
property impacts potentially both east and west of the station. (The new
track would have to “flare” outside the ROW approaching and leaving
Mineola Station in order to fit into an expanded, 3-platform station
footprint.) LIRR believes that the revised Nassau Interlocking
configuration (moving Nassau 1 and 3 closer to Mineola) would permit
sufficient stopping flexibility for “intra-Island” service.
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Re: LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Postby scopelliti » Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:57 pm

Help: Nassau 1 and Nassau 3 ???
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Re: LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Postby rr503 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:47 pm

mkm4 wrote:From: http://www.amodernli.com/wp-content/upl ... _FINAL.pdf Response 1-75

Construction of an island platform at Mineola would have residential
property impacts potentially both east and west of the station. (The new
track would have to “flare” outside the ROW approaching and leaving
Mineola Station in order to fit into an expanded, 3-platform station
footprint.) LIRR believes that the revised Nassau Interlocking
configuration (moving Nassau 1 and 3 closer to Mineola) would permit
sufficient stopping flexibility for “intra-Island” service.


If there's one place where I believe emdom would have been justified, it's here. Flexibility and reliability are on the line -- it speaks to the Prince Andrew driven obsession with minimizing impact at any cost that this wasn't done.

In general, take what that EIS says with a grain of salt. It is widely regarded within transit circles as being a bit of a rubber stamp on a foregone conclusion.
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Re: LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Postby Head-end View » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:14 pm

scopelliti wrote:Help: Nassau 1 and Nassau 3 ???

Those are sets of high-speed (60mph) crossovers. Nassau-1 is located between New Hyde Park and Merillon Ave. stations. Nassau-3 is between between Mineola and Carle Place, actually at Glen Cove Rd. And Nassau-2 is where the Oyster Bay Branch splits off, right IFO Nassau Tower just east of Mineola Station.
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Re: LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Postby Head-end View » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:19 pm

MattAmity90, I believe the plan is to do exactly what you suggested. Put the third track where the existing south platform is. It lines up perfectly with the extra bay in the Mineola Blvd. underpass. When the bus terminal/pkg. garage was built, it looks like they left room for a new platform just south of the existing one. :wink:
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Re: LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Postby Andrew Saucci » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:23 pm

I don't see how the platform in Mineola can be built as a side platform without considerable difficulty and expense. Everything there suggests that it was intended to be an island platform between the two southernmost tracks, including this photo, in which we see that the support for the Mineola Blvd Bridge falls where the current southern platform is located:

http://www.defoecorp.com/PROJ_ARCHCONC_mineola/PROTO2/images/big_pix1a.jpg

It looks to me as though that pillar would have to relocated (the LIE Oyster Bay branch bridge notwithstanding, a tall order) in order to put the third track there.
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Re: LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Postby MattAmity90 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:21 am

Plan looking East:

[WBP] TRK1 TRK2 || TRK3 [EBP]

The || is the support on the Mineola Blvd. bridge, and the plan calls for the new track to be laid to the South of the two existing tracks from Floral Park to Mineola, then North from East of Mineola to Hicksville.
This station is Babylon, this is the train to Penn Station. Stopping at: Lindenhurst, Copiague, Amityville, Massapequa Park, Massapequa, Seaford, Wantagh, Bellmore, Merrick, Freeport, Baldwin, Rockville Centre, Lynbrook, Valley Stream, Jamaica, Kew Gardens, Forest Hills, Woodside, Penn Station.
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Re: LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Postby Head-end View » Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:46 pm

I would think that thru Westbury Station the third track will be south of the existing tracks, not north. There is no room to put another track on the north side and still have the station building there. But there is room on the south side with the large parking lot.
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Re: LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Postby MattAmity90 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:10 pm

Head-end View wrote:I would think that thru Westbury Station the third track will be south of the existing tracks, not north. There is no room to put another track on the north side and still have the station building there. But there is room on the south side with the large parking lot.


Actually yeah, because the new Post Avenue bridge has the area for a third track on the South side of it. When they do so you are going to see a giant steel barrier erected with new Earth and ballast to be dumped in to create the foundation for the new Southern platform. After that they will pour concrete to give it a similar appearance to the North side of the Babylon Branch in between Amityville and Massapequa Park, or the Earth embankment at Massapequa, literally a Great Wall of China. They did this technique at the grade between Wyandanch and Deer Park that leads up to Deer Park Avenue during the recent Double Track.
This station is Babylon, this is the train to Penn Station. Stopping at: Lindenhurst, Copiague, Amityville, Massapequa Park, Massapequa, Seaford, Wantagh, Bellmore, Merrick, Freeport, Baldwin, Rockville Centre, Lynbrook, Valley Stream, Jamaica, Kew Gardens, Forest Hills, Woodside, Penn Station.
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