East End Service: Greenport Scoot, Montauk Line, Etc.

[Backshophoss]

When the signals finally go online on the Montauk,it might be controlled at Babylon tower untill JSCC finally goes on line.
FRA is not a fan of MBS for Passenger service,and the distant switch signals used on the Montauk's east end.
At present only "Y" Block Station(Sayville),"PD"(Patchogue)," JJD"(former "MS" at Mastic-Shirley),and "SK" (Speonk Yard) are controlled by Babylon tower.
As are all the Block Limit Stations to MY(Montauk).

If the intention to get signals to the passing siding at Yaphank("YA"BLS)on the Mainline,control might be at Divide tower untill JSCC goes online.

[Noel Weaver]

Here is a some interesting tidbits of history from a very old Long Island Timetable (public in this case). My notes and information are from the system public timetable dated October 10, 1922, corrected to February 23, 1923. During this period they did not use two words for Rail Road, it was the Long Island Railroad. On the front cover it states: “Avoid waste keep this timetable”, it has been around for a long time. Unlike some timetables from this period the paper is in pretty good shape as well and it is fully intact. They did not use the PRR Keystone at that time either. They had a full column of four paragraphs asking for suggestions and criticisms, can you imagine something like that today? Most stations handled checked baggage and many of the ones that did not are no longer in operation today. They had four city ticket offices in Manhattan and one more in Brooklyn. There were five weekday trains to Greenport three of which ran via the Montauk Division. They ran a couple of trains between Greenport and Amagansett via Manorville and Eastport. They were called “scoots”. There were five eastbound trains to Amagansett of which two ran to Montauk. There was a third train available according to note “v” which stated “On application to conductor before reaching Easthampton, and on single payment of $12.00 in addition to surrender of regular transportation to Montauk, for each person carried, train No. 20 will be extended from Amagansett to Montauk”.
There were two weekday trains east of Port Jefferson to Wading River with stops at Millers Place, Rocky Point and Shoreham. Wading River was 11.2 miles east of Port Jefferson. There was eleven trains each way between Mineola and Valley Stream via West Hempstead. Finally note z on the reference marks page: “Stops only on notice to conductor to receive passengers for New York, Brooklyn and Jamaica”. I ask how do you ask a conductor to get picked up at a “f” stop, you ask the ticket agent, operator or display intention to the engineer that you wish to board the train.
The next public timetable from the Long Island in my collection dates from October 17, 1928 and by then they were using two words ie Rail Road and the front displays the PRR Keystone with the LIRR initials inside it.
By September 18, 1938 Wading River still had a couple of trains left, the Sag Harbor Branch had four round trips stopping at Sag Harbor, Noyack Road and Bridgehampton.
On the Montauk Branch all four round trips ran through to Montauk, the scoot was gone and nothing terminated or originated at Amagansett. Mineola – Valley Stream was also gone.
If you are really interested in this stuff, I can’t urge you enough to find some old LIRR timetables, public or employee, they are different but all are very interesting to read and learn about the history of the railroad. I have spent hour re-reading my old timetables and every time I do it I learn something new that I wasn’t aware of before.
Noel Weaver

[nyandw]

Nice stuff! Thanks for the post. http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/Timetables/timetables.htm LIRR Timetable 9/10/1884

Folks: Like to add to the page let me know. Thanks.

[gamer4616]

Rode the Montauk Branch yesterday -- new signals in place and bagged, waiting to be activated. They're all colorlight type -- look a bit like DL&W signals to me.
When will these be turned on? And will turnouts go to remote operation with their activation?

Looks like signals will be cut over the weekend of Nov 11-12 and placed in service beginning Nov 13. From what I can see, ND, SN, and AG will be interlocked and WH/BH will become Double Ended Freight Tracks (no signals are up there at this point). Montauk has a Color Position Light west of the station and an ASC Box on the platform.


I've heard SN siding, once interlocked, will be renamed RPK Interlocking in honor of Raymond P. Kenny who had a 44 year career at the railroad.


As far as the Greenport line, I haven't been out there in a few months, so I'm not sure what, if any, work is being done.

[nyandw]

I've heard SN siding, once interlocked, will be renamed RPK Interlocking in honor of Raymond P. Kenny who had a 44 year career at the railroad.

Please advice if/when this occurs, thanks.

[LRail]

Could someone explain for me, what Rule 261 is in more detail. And what does that mean for trains in the future on the Montauk branch? What does changing the siding at WH to a double ended freight mean? Thanks!

[Noel Weaver]

Two key rules in ABS territory: 251 provides for following movements to operate by signal indication while 261 means opposing and following movements operate by signal indication. In double track territory you can have 251 in effect with current of traffic on track one being westbound and track two being eastbound. Current of traffic is the same as on a highway where you have westbound lanes and eastbound lanes. 261 Territory means movements can be made on either track by signal indication. 261 Territory can be controlled by two different towers or one tower or directly by the train dispatcher. In any event the control levers are arranged so that they can not put two trains in different directions on the same track at locations where they would be in a collision course. Can a reverse move be made in 251 territory? If the train involved has written authority to make such a move then a move can be made against the current of traffic for example westbound on track two in the above example. It used to require a form 19 train order but train orders are not much used by any railroad anymore so it is a written authority in the format provided by that particular railroad. In today's modern railroading there is not too much 251 territory left at least not in the northeast. Current of traffic rules could also apply in double track, manual block territory (MBS rules), on the New Haven there were some lines that were double track but did not have automatic block signals. Following trains might have to wait for a manual block but at least they could run opposing trains on the other track. I don't know if the Long Island had any double track, MBS territory or not, maybe in very early years they did but probably not in the years from about 1910 on. I hope this will answer most of your questions.
Noel Weaver

[Sigz]

Looks like signals will be cut over the weekend of Nov 11-12 and placed in service beginning Nov 13. From what I can see, ND, SN, and AG will be interlocked and WH/BH will become Double Ended Freight Tracks (no signals are up there at this point). Montauk has a Color Position Light west of the station and an ASC Box on the platform.


I've heard SN siding, once interlocked, will be renamed RPK Interlocking in honor of Raymond P. Kenny who had a 44 year career at the railroad.

Just some minor corrections:

Hampton Bays (ND) will become RPK interlocking.

AG will be control point, not an interlocking.

The signal west of MY is a color-light signal.

[krispy]

That would be a cool tribute to Ray, glad to hear it. Sigz - when you say CP, do you mean electric lock switches only (like PT, MO, etc) or with signals so we can do a meet? I hope they did more than just ND and SN, that's going to be tough on any future Summer schedules.

[Backshophoss]

Believe AG was to be a"holding signal" only,to allow for those needed track inspection Hi-Rails to do their work and not tie up
an extended section of single track from MY and the next "remoted interlocking".
Should not affect the use of AG's passing siding.

[Noel Weaver]

That would be a cool tribute to Ray, glad to hear it. Sigz - when you say CP, do you mean electric lock switches only (like PT, MO, etc) or with signals so we can do a meet? I hope they did more than just ND and SN, that's going to be tough on any future Summer schedules.

CP means a control point. Usually that means interlocking, interlocked switches or crossovers, signals and whatever else. A CP can also consist of just a home signal under the control of an operator or train dispatcher and used to hold trains at a location due to other moves taking place ahead or to provide protection for a reverse move in some cases.
Noel Weaver

[hrfcarl]

Does the 5:21 Greenport Scoot still offer wine tasting? The last MTA announcement is dated 2016.

[nyandw]

Here is a some interesting tidbits of history from a very old Long Island Timetable (public in this case). My notes and information are from the system public timetable dated October 10, 1922, corrected to February 23, 1923. During this period they did not use two words for Rail Road, it was the Long Island Railroad. Noel Weaver

Possible you might post this item?

[gamer4616]

I see the number plates are on the signals for Hampton Bays and Southampton. ND has been renamed RPK and SN renamed SH.

[nyandw]

CP (Crossing Predictor) a different signal system being used at Sayville to help manage the length of time the gates are down. It provides consistent warning times for crossings under the conditions of varying train speeds. These were installed at several crossing in the Sayville area in the 90's.

This simply alerts the engineer to the limits of this system in operation. When they had low platforms, the platform extended right up to the crossing. When you pulled in, if you stopped half way in the station, the gates would come up; when you started from the station, about 3/4 of the way through, you would trip the gate circuit and the gates would come down. End CP sign 12/31/07 Photo: Mike McDermet

The term controlled point is not used on the LIRR, rather they use remote controlled interlocking, etc. For instance, east of Sayville is a point remotely controlled by PD tower where the 2 tracks merge into one, and that is simply called "Y"