MTA LIRR Double Track Project - Ronkonkoma to Farmingdale

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Re: MTA LIRR Double Track Project - Ronkonkoma to Farmingdal

Postby Jeff Smith » Wed May 16, 2018 8:47 am

Good info, thanks! So LIRR and MNRR will finally be on the same signal system? That has huge implications for inter-operability and equipment standardization (save the over/under issue).
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Re: MTA LIRR Double Track Project - Ronkonkoma to Farmingdal

Postby SwingMan » Wed May 16, 2018 9:11 am

No, it is a similar signal system. The biggest reason it is not the same is that there would be conflicting signal aspects with current signals.

MN equipment, and every other railroad, lack LIRR's ASC system on their equipment. So no, this isn't any step closer to "brand unity", other than trying to copycat a signal system into a completely different animal.
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Re: MTA LIRR Double Track Project - Ronkonkoma to Farmingdal

Postby Jeff Smith » Wed May 16, 2018 9:23 am

Thanks, SwingMan. Wasn't sure... I knew LIRR had extra aspects. I'm sure it's not easy to update.
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Re: MTA LIRR Double Track Project - Ronkonkoma to Farmingdal

Postby DaveBarraza » Wed May 16, 2018 6:50 pm

Head-end View wrote:The green-over-green for clear-block is new since 2006 when LIRR first began color-light signals at Patchogue. Green-over-red-over-red would be a clear on most railroads. :-)


Thanks, Head-end, I was wondering as I wrote that last post how the Clear Block was displayed at SK2 in Speonk before the CTC was complete from there to Montauk.
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Re: MTA LIRR Double Track Project - Ronkonkoma to Farmingdal

Postby DaveBarraza » Wed May 16, 2018 7:09 pm

LIRRcustoms.com wrote:The new signals aspects and indications were placed in service by General Notice 3-84 on May 7th, 2018.


Thanks LIRRcustoms - that's exactly what I was looking for.

I thought there were also going to be interlockings at "Lawn" and "Pilgrim", as well, no?
Lawn would be at the east end of the Farmingdale long siding, across the road from Pinelawn.
Also I'm not sure about "Ocean" I think the whole shebangle that will replace KO1 will be Pond. But things change...
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Re: MTA LIRR Double Track Project - Ronkonkoma to Farmingdal

Postby Head-end View » Wed May 16, 2018 7:10 pm

Well, the post re: the new signal aspects is quite an eye-opener. I had no idea this was in the works.

A few observations: First I assume this new system will be only on the new double-track section to Ronkonkoma, at least for the near future. And second, that means there will now be three different signal aspect systems in use on different parts of LIRR, besides the Amtrak aspects in the Penn Sta. tunnels. Third, LIRR wasn't even close to fully converting from PL sig's to color-light sig's. And now there will be two different types of color-light signals? And fourth, I wonder how much of a problem that will be for the engineers........ SEPTA in the Philadelphia area also uses at least three different sets of aspects. Not good. It seems like the only New York area railroad that has completely standardized on a new system is Metro-North.

Also these new LIRR signals are not that similar to Metro-North, which outside of GCT only uses two basic aspects, red-over-red and flashing green. They do have a few special signals inside the GCT complex.
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Re: MTA LIRR Double Track Project - Ronkonkoma to Farmingdal

Postby MattAmity90 » Thu May 17, 2018 12:37 am

Okay just to make it clear, am I correct as I say the following? (Also Edward has not posted because of the recent storms and rain).

-East of Brentwood it is single tracked (BRENT will be eliminated by the way).
-At the new CI, trains switch from the original running track to the new track that has been connected to the original running track where CI1 was located leading into the Central Islip station (they cut out the switch at CI1 and connected the siding to the current running, and the current running to the new).
-CI2 you mentioned has been demolished with the current siding to be connected down the road to the new track, and the main running track continuing on into Ronkonkoma.
-That BARRICADE symbol is attached to the siding track East of Lowell Avenue.
This station is Babylon, this is the train to Penn Station. Stopping at: Lindenhurst, Copiague, Amityville, Massapequa Park, Massapequa, Seaford, Wantagh, Bellmore, Merrick, Freeport, Baldwin, Rockville Centre, Lynbrook, Valley Stream, Jamaica, Kew Gardens, Forest Hills, Woodside, Penn Station.
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Re: MTA LIRR Double Track Project - Ronkonkoma to Farmingdal

Postby tj48 » Thu May 17, 2018 6:23 pm

Some observations today during my travels.
The third rail installation appears to have reached the Commack Road crossing.
Track construction crews are still working the ROW between Commack Road and Little East Neck Road crossing. A ballast regulator has joined the 2 tampers, track stabilizer and track mobile with the HERZOG ballast cars.
The new ROW is still separated just east of the Carll's Path crossing. I was only able to get a quick look but it looks like they installed a switch and track from the existing ROW leading to the new entrance of the Astro stone yard so the NY&A can service them. A Pettibone rail crane towing a small blue ballast dump car was being loaded from a ballast pile in the P.C. Richards parking lot.
Still a lot of construction going on at the Wyandanch station. Its going to be quite impressive when its all finished.
There is a good size pile of new third rail stored in the construction yard in Wyandanch.
Construction crews were installing the third rail supports along the stretch of ROW between the Little East Neck Road and the Wellwood Road crossings. Didn't look like the supports had been installed between Straight Path and Little East Neck Road crossings though.
All construction seems to have come to a halt at the Pinelawn station unless its just going to be 2 platforms with no pedestrian overpass or shelter.
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Re: MTA LIRR Double Track Project - Ronkonkoma to Farmingdal

Postby MattAmity90 » Tue May 29, 2018 6:28 pm

Updates on the project:

-Third rail has been laid from Pond Road to just East of where CI2 was, Central Islip to just East of Brentwood, JS to DK, and Little East Neck Road to Wellwood Avenue.
-CI2 switch is gone, it's now two tracks, but Track 1 is not fully connected.
-Brentwood and Deer Park's station buildings have been gutted and are undergoing renovation.
-Pedestal signals installed at KO1
-Eastern 6 car lengths of the existing Wyandanch platform have been laid with hand railing, and almost half of the new platform.
-Pinelawn's new platform is completed with ramp, but does not have any railing, lights or signs since the track is not ready.
This station is Babylon, this is the train to Penn Station. Stopping at: Lindenhurst, Copiague, Amityville, Massapequa Park, Massapequa, Seaford, Wantagh, Bellmore, Merrick, Freeport, Baldwin, Rockville Centre, Lynbrook, Valley Stream, Jamaica, Kew Gardens, Forest Hills, Woodside, Penn Station.
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Re: MTA LIRR Double Track Project - Ronkonkoma to Farmingdal

Postby DaveBarraza » Tue May 29, 2018 7:43 pm

AFAIK, "Pedestal Signals" are position light signals. (sometimes called "domino signals" with two lights per position.

I don't know what the LIRR term for a ground mounted color-light signal is, especially the RAS signals.
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Re: MTA LIRR Double Track Project - Ronkonkoma to Farmingdal

Postby Head-end View » Tue May 29, 2018 8:08 pm

Matt, are the new pedestal signals at KO1 pos-light or color signals?

And Dave, I believe LIRR calls ground-mounted (dwarf) pos-light sig's low home signals. Not sure if they have another name for pedestal or dwarf color signals.
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Re: MTA LIRR Double Track Project - Ronkonkoma to Farmingdal

Postby MattAmity90 » Wed May 30, 2018 6:10 am

I only got a look at the back, Edward was photographing to the West at Ocean Avenue. The signals are same ones installed at the new CI Interlocking, so I guess they would be dwarf/home signals. Two of them were installed and they face towards the engineer as he is goes Eastbound to terminate at Ronkonkoma. Only question I have is when will the new track one be officially connected at CI2? My best bet is when they raze the signal gantry just like they did with CI1.

Does anyone know what is going on with the elevators at Ronkonkoma? A week ago the elevator for Platform B (island platform) was out due to renovation. Last week, Platform A's elevator is out of service, are they refurbishing them?

I'm also aware that the crews were also busy at Shinnecock Hills by erecting the temporary platform and pedestrian bridge for the fans.
This station is Babylon, this is the train to Penn Station. Stopping at: Lindenhurst, Copiague, Amityville, Massapequa Park, Massapequa, Seaford, Wantagh, Bellmore, Merrick, Freeport, Baldwin, Rockville Centre, Lynbrook, Valley Stream, Jamaica, Kew Gardens, Forest Hills, Woodside, Penn Station.
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Re: MTA LIRR Double Track Project - Ronkonkoma to Farmingdal

Postby mjd13076 » Thu May 31, 2018 5:42 am

While viewing pictures of the KO double track project, I can't help but notice some of the tracks literally look like squiggly lines. Is this just part of the building process and there’s a certain machine that rolls over the rails to straighten them out? I know some of these pictures are taken with a long lens and distance compression adds to the effect but...
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Re: MTA LIRR Double Track Project - Ronkonkoma to Farmingdal

Postby DaveBarraza » Thu May 31, 2018 9:51 pm

Head-end View wrote:Matt, are the new pedestal signals at KO1 pos-light or color signals?

And Dave, I believe LIRR calls ground-mounted (dwarf) pos-light sig's low home signals. Not sure if they have another name for pedestal or dwarf color signals.


Agree that dwarves are low homes, and they imply slow speed moves (Slow Clear, Slow Approach) Pedestals are reduced scale, but still full home signals. I found the PRR drawing that defines them as "pedestal", PRR "Type 4102" it-s PRR S-410-D

http://prr.railfan.net/signalstandards/standards.cgi?plan=S-410-D&frame=YES&sortdir=up&sortby=1&rr=all
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Re: MTA LIRR Double Track Project - Ronkonkoma to Farmingdal

Postby MattAmity90 » Thu May 31, 2018 10:07 pm

mjd13076 wrote:While viewing pictures of the KO double track project, I can't help but notice some of the tracks literally look like squiggly lines. Is this just part of the building process and there’s a certain machine that rolls over the rails to straighten them out? I know some of these pictures are taken with a long lens and distance compression adds to the effect but...


They haven't been set yet, that's why they look squiggly. A photo taken of the site of the former switch of CI2 shows the siding connected to the new second track but looks zig-zagged. That just means that work has to be done by leveling the ballast underneath to create embankment. The rails will be straightened out by workers, not rail vehicles.
This station is Babylon, this is the train to Penn Station. Stopping at: Lindenhurst, Copiague, Amityville, Massapequa Park, Massapequa, Seaford, Wantagh, Bellmore, Merrick, Freeport, Baldwin, Rockville Centre, Lynbrook, Valley Stream, Jamaica, Kew Gardens, Forest Hills, Woodside, Penn Station.
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