MTA LIRR Double Track Project - Ronkonkoma to Farmingdale

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Re: MTA LIRR Double Track Project - Ronkonkoma to Farmingdal

Postby MattAmity90 » Mon May 07, 2018 12:36 pm

He released more photos.

We officially have two tracks that connect to the East end of the new Central Islip switches, communication line work is being done near Little East Neck Road, and the ballast around MP33 has made the two tracks even. Pinelawn hasn't seen much in the way of changes other than the new platform having the ramp officially connected.

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This station is Babylon, this is the train to Penn Station. Stopping at: Lindenhurst, Copiague, Amityville, Massapequa Park, Massapequa, Seaford, Wantagh, Bellmore, Merrick, Freeport, Baldwin, Rockville Centre, Lynbrook, Valley Stream, Jamaica, Kew Gardens, Forest Hills, Woodside, Penn Station.
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Re: MTA LIRR Double Track Project - Ronkonkoma to Farmingdal

Postby MattAmity90 » Wed May 09, 2018 10:32 pm

Trains are now running through the new switches of the new Central Islip Interlocking, but they are only running on the new track. Pedestal signals are colored, not PRR position lights. I'm not sure if the siding track is being used. They are saying that there will be the elimination of the siding at Central Islip. It's confusing, but hopefully I'll find out since they will only be working non-stop only through next week on the 18th.
This station is Babylon, this is the train to Penn Station. Stopping at: Lindenhurst, Copiague, Amityville, Massapequa Park, Massapequa, Seaford, Wantagh, Bellmore, Merrick, Freeport, Baldwin, Rockville Centre, Lynbrook, Valley Stream, Jamaica, Kew Gardens, Forest Hills, Woodside, Penn Station.
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Re: MTA LIRR Double Track Project - Ronkonkoma to Farmingdal

Postby MattAmity90 » Mon May 14, 2018 2:24 pm

Layout of the current status. GREEN indicates in service, ORANGE indicates laid/under construction, and BLACK indications (?) question mark.

KO Branch..png
KO Branch..png (6.15 KiB) Viewed 792 times
This station is Babylon, this is the train to Penn Station. Stopping at: Lindenhurst, Copiague, Amityville, Massapequa Park, Massapequa, Seaford, Wantagh, Bellmore, Merrick, Freeport, Baldwin, Rockville Centre, Lynbrook, Valley Stream, Jamaica, Kew Gardens, Forest Hills, Woodside, Penn Station.
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Re: MTA LIRR Double Track Project - Ronkonkoma to Farmingdal

Postby DaveBarraza » Mon May 14, 2018 2:38 pm

Was there a rule book update to handle the low homes now in service at central Islip?
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Re: MTA LIRR Double Track Project - Ronkonkoma to Farmingdal

Postby Backshophoss » Mon May 14, 2018 5:57 pm

More likely a "General Notice" was issued,when the low Home signals were put in service.
A "General Order" will have schedule changes and SI changes that need to replace pages in the current ETT.

Will most likely revise the Book of Rules if and when all the PRR P/L signals are gone.
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Re: MTA LIRR Double Track Project - Ronkonkoma to Farmingdal

Postby MattAmity90 » Mon May 14, 2018 6:44 pm

The diagram I'm showing is indicating where the trains are running from the new Central Islip Interlocking to Ronkonkoma.

-The pedestal signals are colored.
-Trains run on the North track (existed), but when they get to CI Interlocking they shift to the NEW second track and use Platform B at Central Islip.
-Both tracks are connected West of Central Islip, and CI2 is out of commission with the signals covered, and there are no temporary pedestal signals.
-I know track panels have been installed at Ronkonkoma.

In this case, are both tracks being used at Central Islip, or are they going to redo the siding?
This station is Babylon, this is the train to Penn Station. Stopping at: Lindenhurst, Copiague, Amityville, Massapequa Park, Massapequa, Seaford, Wantagh, Bellmore, Merrick, Freeport, Baldwin, Rockville Centre, Lynbrook, Valley Stream, Jamaica, Kew Gardens, Forest Hills, Woodside, Penn Station.
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Re: MTA LIRR Double Track Project - Ronkonkoma to Farmingdal

Postby DaveBarraza » Mon May 14, 2018 8:21 pm

What aspects do the new CI colored ground signals display?

Slow Clear?
Slow Approach?

I'm thinking of locations where there are ground mounted color light signals existing on LIRR right now, like at Jamaica. They work like dwarf signals - with aspects indicating slow speed moves.

I see that they've installed higher speed turnouts at CI, so I'm wondering if the ground signals would display some sort of "cab signal proceed" or similar so that trains could follow the cab signal aspect and take advantage of the higher speed over the turnout. Adding an aspect would require a change to the Book of Rules.

Just wondering.
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Re: MTA LIRR Double Track Project - Ronkonkoma to Farmingdal

Postby Head-end View » Mon May 14, 2018 9:32 pm

LIRR does not use a cab-proceed signal like some other railroads. LIRR's most favorable signal is clear.
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Re: MTA LIRR Double Track Project - Ronkonkoma to Farmingdal

Postby DaveBarraza » Tue May 15, 2018 6:39 am

Agree 100%. (Although maybe Absolute Clear is "more" favorable ? ?)

This is why I'm pondering the use of low homes with a single head, at interlockings with medium speed crossovers. They best the low homes give today at Jay and Hall are Slow Clear, Slow Approach.

I suppose the best thing to do is take a spin down there and see if the signals are readable from the road crossings at Carleton or Rt.111...
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Re: MTA LIRR Double Track Project - Ronkonkoma to Farmingdal

Postby MattAmity90 » Tue May 15, 2018 1:27 pm

Look REALLY close, and you will see two red lights. They essentially put two traffic lights at the bottom as the dwarf or pedestal signals, although they are low.

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Two red signals looking East from Islip Avenue.
This station is Babylon, this is the train to Penn Station. Stopping at: Lindenhurst, Copiague, Amityville, Massapequa Park, Massapequa, Seaford, Wantagh, Bellmore, Merrick, Freeport, Baldwin, Rockville Centre, Lynbrook, Valley Stream, Jamaica, Kew Gardens, Forest Hills, Woodside, Penn Station.
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Re: MTA LIRR Double Track Project - Ronkonkoma to Farmingdal

Postby Head-end View » Tue May 15, 2018 7:11 pm

Dave, on LIRR absolute-clear is used in a different situation than clear. Clear is the normally used indication to show a clear block ahead. The absolute-clear is used in case of a failure of the train's automatic speed control system. And it means clear to the next interlocking station.

The absolute clear is shown in pos-light signalling by 3 vertical yellow lights flashing. And in LIRR color-light signals is a flashing-green over flashing-red.

LIRR also has a color signal called clear block (green-over-green). I'm not sure what it's used for; possibly a proceed indication at the end of signalled territory. Maybe some employees on here could help us with that one.
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Re: MTA LIRR Double Track Project - Ronkonkoma to Farmingdal

Postby DaveBarraza » Tue May 15, 2018 7:45 pm

MattAmity90 wrote:Look REALLY close, and you will see two red lights. They essentially put two traffic lights at the bottom as the dwarf or pedestal signals, although they are low.

42044401842_3914b72c5d_z.jpg


You beat me to it, thanks for posting the photo!

I see a red stop signal on the right, and I see a Red over White on the left.

AFAIK Red over White is not in the LIRR Rules of the Operating Department, but maybe I'm wrong. Rule 290 is Red/Yellow and Rule 291 is Red/Flashing Red.

...which is why I asked about a Bulletin / General Order / Book of Rules change to support the new Central Islip being put online.
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Re: MTA LIRR Double Track Project - Ronkonkoma to Farmingdal

Postby DaveBarraza » Tue May 15, 2018 8:11 pm

Head-end View wrote:LIRR also has a color signal called clear block (green-over-green). I'm not sure what it's used for; possibly a proceed indication at the end of signalled territory. Maybe some employees on here could help us with that one.


There wouldn't be a signal at the end of ...signaled territory. From discussions (ad nausea) on this forum, LIRR does not consider Manual Block Territory to be non-signaled territory. The Book of Rules backs this up, it defines both Manual Block and Automatic Block as signal systems made up of consecutive blocks - absence of track circuits notwithstanding. From what I understand, at the end of a signaled block entering a secondary track, there could be a Rule 296 fig.B "END OF BLOCK" sign. This was the case when the Rule 251 ABS signaling ended at Bliss, at the entrance to "C" secondary. (Before they invented the NYAR Secondary)

Clear Block Rule 280 is used to govern the entrance to a Manual Block "Proceed; Manual Block Clear". To my knowledge, the last one in service on the LIRR is KO2-11E. I've seen Clear Block shown as Green over Two Reds, but I haven't seen it shown as a Green / Green, but it's certainly possible that it was at one time.
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Re: MTA LIRR Double Track Project - Ronkonkoma to Farmingdal

Postby Head-end View » Tue May 15, 2018 8:18 pm

The green-over-green for clear-block is new since 2006 when LIRR first began color-light signals at Patchogue. Green-over-red-over-red would be a clear on most railroads. :-)
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Re: MTA LIRR Double Track Project - Ronkonkoma to Farmingdal

Postby LIRRcustoms.com » Wed May 16, 2018 8:33 am

The LIRR is switching over to a similar signaling system that Metro-North uses, which is a cab signal based system. The system will utilize only signals at interlockings and those signals will not display aspects that relay route information to the Engineer such as if he will be making a straight move or diverging movement. The new signals will work in conjunction with cab signals and only display information relating to the track immediately ahead. The Engineer will proceed only in accordance with his cab signal indications while abiding by applicable rules. The aim for the railroad is to one day switch the entire system to this method of signaling and eliminate the position lights and wayside automatic signals.

The new signals aspects and indications were placed in service by General Notice 3-84 on May 7th, 2018.

Rule 298A, PROCEED: Proceed, governed by cab signal indications.
(Green over white)

Rule 298B, ABSOLUTE PROCEED: Proceed, slow speed within interlocking limits. Track clear to next interlocking signal. Approach next interlocking signal prepared to stop.
(Flashing green over flashing white)

Rule 298C, SLOW PROCEED: Proceed; slow speed within interlocking limits then governed by cab signal indications outside of interlocking limits.
(Red over green over white)

Rule 298D, RESTRICTING PROCEED: Proceed; restricted speed within interlocking limits, then governed by cab signal indications outside of interlocking limits.
(Red over white)

Rule 298E, RESTRICTING: Proceed at restricted speed.
(Flashing red)

Rule 298F, STOP SIGNAL: Stop
(Red)

The Engineer will get an MAS code (80mph) on a straight move through these new interlockings once cut-in and medium speed code (40mph) for diverging moves. These signals are not the same as the low clearance color lights as seen in Jamaica. CI interlocking is now one interlocking and remote station as opposed to 2 (CI1 & CI2). CI2 has been eliminated and is no longer in service. The passing siding is no longer in service and the switch points have been removed and dismantled at the old CI2 switch. During the summer weekends, more work will be performed which either cut in new switches, signals or both, one by one. The aim is to have the second track in full operation by 2018's end. Some new interlockings will be created and others modified. You'll have FARM, PW, DANCH, JS, PINE, BRENT, CI, OCEAN, POND and KO. PINE will be at the location of the Pine Aire double ended freight track. The old electric locks will be dual control switches controlled by Divide and will feature the new color lights that will govern entrance and exit to said siding.
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