The finalists for the new BART railcars

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The finalists for the new BART railcars

Postby tommyboy6181 » Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:10 pm

We now know who will be in the final bidding for the first 200 cars of the BART fleet replacement project. The finalists are: Alstom, Bombardier, and Hyundai-Rotem.
Link: http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_19329436

CAF and CSR Sifang did not make the final cut. No surprise with CSR Sifang as their newest order (C151A cars) in Singapore have been having a lot of problems so far. CAF is able to produce some really good railcars, so it may have been edged out on price, or Alstom/Bombardier/Rotem had a slightly better technical proposal. It could have been both.

However, BART now giving Buy America preference, it may narrow down to Alstom and Bombardier. After all, those 2 manufacturers have had experience in the system before and have multiple facilities in the US and North America. Alstom built the C1 cars back in 1988, and Bombardier (then AdTranz) did the A/B car rehab (now known as A2/B2 cars). As for Hyundai-Rotem, they have a spotty record on their projects around the globe and their US projects are heavily delayed. SEPTA in Philadelphia is still waiting for their new cars and it's almost 2 years behind schedule. However, they are capable of building a decent product in some cases such as the Athens, Greece subway cars.

Even more interesting will be seeing who gets the remainder of the project. Originally, this was going to be bid as all 700 cars as once from what I remember.
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Re: The finalists for the new BART railcars

Postby R36 Combine Coach » Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:11 am

None of the three companies will have complete car assembly in the United States. Alstom will source the shells from Sao Paolo, Brazil (completion in Hornell, NY), Bombardier in Quebec (final assembly in Plattsburgh, NY) and Rotem in South Philadelphia with imported shell bodies.
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Re: The finalists for the new BART railcars

Postby tommyboy6181 » Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:58 pm

You are correct on that. If Alstom gets the job, they could also source body shells from Barcelona, Spain as they did with their Washington Metro 6k project a few years ago. At this point, the only company that has body shell manufacturing in the US is Kawasaki with their Lincoln, NE plant.
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Re: The finalists for the new BART railcars

Postby R36 Combine Coach » Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:37 pm

tommyboy6181 wrote:You are correct on that. If Alstom gets the job, they could also source body shells from Barcelona, Spain as they did with their Washington Metro 6k project a few years ago. At this point, the only company that has body shell manufacturing in the US is Kawasaki with their Lincoln, NE plant.

Or CAF in Elmira Heights, NY which will be building the new Viewliners.
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Re: The finalists for the new BART railcars

Postby 25Hz » Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:58 pm

Interesting, the fleet is quoted to be the oldest in the country. Are not the silverliner 2/3 & the PA1/2 very old? Maybe they were talking aggregate age? That said, many transit systems are undergoing active fleet replacement, BART shouldn't be left out.
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Re: The finalists for the new BART railcars

Postby R36 Combine Coach » Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:53 pm

25Hz wrote:Interesting, the fleet is quoted to be the oldest in the country. Are not the silverliner 2/3 & the PA1/2 very old? Maybe they were talking aggregate age? That said, many transit systems are undergoing active fleet replacement, BART shouldn't be left out.

The oldest transit fleet in the nation until recently was PATH, which ran a fleet dating from 1965 (PA1) to 1987 (PA4). With the PA5 order now complete, PATH has gone from the oldest to newest. While BART's oldest cars are from the early 1970s, keep in mind that NYCT and CTA have 1960s/70s cars in service and WMATA has the original 1970s cars in operation as well.
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Re: The finalists for the new BART railcars

Postby jwhite07 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:27 pm

To add to the list of equipment older than BART's A and B cars, the PATCO I cars in Philadelphia and MBTA Red Line 01500/01600 series in Boston both date from the late 1960s.
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Re: The finalists for the new BART railcars

Postby digitalsciguy » Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:39 pm

Random aside about this new procurement:

Is the San Francisco Bay Area Rapid Transit District obligated by law to have the design process so open or do they do this as a show of good government? I ask as a transit advocate over in Boston who is desperately trying to gain public awareness and support for our own procurement of new cars, which is on our capital budget but the design process so far has been behind closed doors with little public information considering the majority of our delays are equipment related...

So far the cars are looking good. I'm actually quite surprised that Kawasaki isn't in the list of finalists...or maybe I shouldn't?
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Re: The finalists for the new BART railcars

Postby R36 Combine Coach » Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:49 pm

jwhite07 wrote:To add to the list of equipment older than BART's A and B cars, the PATCO I cars in Philadelphia and MBTA Red Line 01500/01600 series in Boston both date from the late 1960s.

Unlike BART, PATCO's fleet (built by Budd in 1968) will be completely rebuilt to new for even more years.
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Re: The finalists for the new BART railcars

Postby tommyboy6181 » Sun May 13, 2012 10:45 pm

Bombardier won the contract for 410 brand new cars. They are expected to start service by 2017 at the latest.
Link: http://www.bart.gov/news/articles/2012/ ... 20510.aspx

The runner up in the contract was Alstom, being priced slightly higher. Hyundai-Rotem was the third place finisher.
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Re: The finalists for the new BART railcars

Postby Head-end View » Sat May 19, 2012 8:54 am

I assume we still won't be able to see out the front, just like the old cars.................?
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Re: The finalists for the new BART railcars

Postby Fan Railer » Sun May 20, 2012 8:28 pm

Head-end View wrote:I assume we still won't be able to see out the front, just like the old cars.................?

Read the interior proposals on the BART website; There is a slight chance that they will install "porthole" camera's on the cab cars and feed the view to a screen in the passenger compartment in the cab. Not sure how authentic that would be as compared to a railfan window, but the possibility is better than nothing.
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Re: The finalists for the new BART railcars

Postby kaitoku » Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:56 am

Why can't they have an old fashioned window out the front? It won't break down like a camera, likely cheaper too.
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Re: The finalists for the new BART railcars

Postby Head-end View » Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:59 pm

Kaitoku, thank you very much for that link to the Japanese head-end ride videos. See Japan's rapid transit systems from your own home in America!
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Re: The finalists for the new BART railcars

Postby kaitoku » Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:12 pm

You're welcome. Head-end views are a staple of train watching here- many trains have seats up front next to the cab, so you can have a seat while enjoying the view ahead.

In case you're curious, the video is of a Tokyo Metro 16000 series on a interline express service on the Odakyu Railway's 4 track mainline.
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