Update on New BART Cars from Bombardier

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Update on New BART Cars from Bombardier

Postby Fan Railer » Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:30 pm

New info out on new BART cars from Bombardier:
On November 21, 2013, BART purchased 365 more cars, for a total fleet size of 775 new railcars, while also accelerating the delivery schedule by 21 months (from 10 cars per month up to 16 cars per month) and lowering procurement costs by approximately $135 million. According to the contract, at least two-thirds of the contract’s amount must be spent on American parts.

There will be two different types of car configurations for the new fleet: a cab car (D-cars), and a non-cab car (E-car). All cars are to be equipped with bike racks, new vinyl seats (57 per car), and a brand new passenger information system which will display next stop information.

Information from these sources:
http://www.bart.gov/news/articles/2013/news20131121-2
http://www.bart.gov/about/projects/cars
http://www.bart.gov/sites/default/files/docs/agendas/11-21-13%20Agenda%20Packet_2.pdf (pages 91-94 of PDF file)
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Re: Update on New BART Cars from Bombardier

Postby lpetrich » Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:00 pm

By comparison, BART's existing fleet is:
A: 59
B: 389
C1: 150
C2: 80

Initial order: A+B: 448
Late 1980's order: C1+C2: 230
Total: 678

A cars: pointy cabs -- leading and trailing cars only.
B cars: middle cars. Many of these cars are original A cars that have been decabbed.
C cars: flat cabs -- can be coupled on their cab ends.
Bay Area Rapid Transit - Wikipedia

Looks like the new order will be enough to entirely replace the existing fleet. From the looks of it, it will be of B-like and C-like cars, with no A-like cars. The A cars' cabs are an artistic indulgence that has proved impractical.

Also, the new cars' seats will be easier to clean than the existing cars' seats, even if less comfortable.
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Re: Update on New BART Cars from Bombardier

Postby Head-end View » Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:50 pm

Wow, old fashioned New York Subway style seating arrangement in California. Who would have thought?

Any chance we passengers might be able to see thru the full-width cab or will the cab-door window be covered or heavily tinted?
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Re: Update on New BART Cars from Bombardier

Postby Fan Railer » Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:23 pm

They were toying with the idea as part of the concept, but we'll have to wait and see if it turns out so.
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Re: Update on New BART Cars from Bombardier

Postby Head-end View » Mon Dec 23, 2013 4:54 pm

Which idea? The New York seating or a cab-door window we can see through?
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Re: Update on New BART Cars from Bombardier

Postby Fan Railer » Tue Dec 24, 2013 2:04 pm

Some sort of forward-mounted camera and a display screen on the passenger side of the cab bulkhead. No agency is going to order half-width cabs at this point, and I don't think most agencies will allow a cab-door window that we can see the operator through anymore.
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Re: Update on New BART Cars from Bombardier

Postby Head-end View » Wed Dec 25, 2013 7:49 pm

Well Fan Railer, you mean after SEPTA's Silverliner V's and Metro-North's M-7A's, right?
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Re: Update on New BART Cars from Bombardier

Postby Fan Railer » Wed Dec 25, 2013 11:37 pm

You forget that BART never really had a clear line of sight from the cab door to the exterior bulkhead window (no, I don't count the A cars). Not to mention PATH operating with a windowless cab door. Besides, most BART operators will have the "employee screen" rolled down over the window anyway. We won't know what exactly we're in for until the first cars roll off the production line in a few years, but I'm not keeping my hopes up, despite the fact that the renderings look promising. Better to have my expectations met, or even exceeded, than to be disappointed.
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Re: Update on New BART Cars from Bombardier

Postby frequentflyer » Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:06 am

Do these cars have the same width dimensions as the DC and Atlanta Metro systems? Same cars just different caps.
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Re: Update on New BART Cars from Bombardier

Postby ExCon90 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:41 pm

I don't have the exact dimensions, but the original BART cars are noticeably wider than on standard-gauge systems, and the new cars would have to match.
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Re: Update on New BART Cars from Bombardier

Postby Fan Railer » Thu Jan 16, 2014 2:27 am

frequentflyer wrote:Do these cars have the same width dimensions as the DC and Atlanta Metro systems? Same cars just different caps.

You forget BART is a broad gauge system.
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Re: Update on New BART Cars from Bombardier

Postby lpetrich » Thu Jan 16, 2014 2:48 am

From System Facts | bart.gov about BART tracks and railcars:
Track gauge: 5'6" instead of standard 4'8.5"
Voltage: 1000 V
Length (A-car): 75' (the ones with a cab sticking out)
Length (B-car): 70'
Width: 10'6"
Height: 10'6"
Headroom: 6'9" (floor to ceiling)

Approximate bounding-circle radius for cross section: 15'

I found a number for platform height in Railway platform height - Wikipedia It's 3'6" from the tops of the rails.
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Re: Update on New BART Cars from Bombardier

Postby frequentflyer » Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:36 am

Fan Railer wrote:You forget BART is a broad gauge system.


Didn't know that , thank you. What was the reason going outside norm gauge wise? Other than more interior room what benefits or challenges have BART faced using non standard gauge?
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Re: Update on New BART Cars from Bombardier

Postby lpetrich » Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:45 pm

The designers of BART were building the first new US urban-rail system in a long time, and they did a lot of R&D when designing the system. They considered possibilities like detachable cabs and supplying three-phase alternating current by third rail: a stack of three rails. They decided on a broad gauge because it would be more stable, because it enabled a lower center of gravity.
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Re: Update on New BART Cars from Bombardier

Postby tomj » Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:24 pm

According to the site below, the wide gauge was chosen either because of wind problems crossing the Golden Gate Bridge or to make the ride more comfortable. The article below and responses are interesting even though I think the original proposal is ridiculous.

http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010 ... ent-865855
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