EMD Tier 4 locomotives delayed until 2017

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Re: EMD Tier 4 locomotives delayed until 2017

Postby v8interceptor » Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:33 am

MEC407 wrote:EGR is a nightmare. That's why the engine manufacturers for trucks and buses are all using SCR instead.


I was just reading the 2015 "American Tugboat Review", a yearly publication put out by "Professional Mariner" magazine covering developments in Work-boats.
The magazine included an article about recent developments in propulsion systems for tugs and similar vessels which explained that SCR systems are not considered optimal in that application due to space issue in engine rooms and several new build vessels will be using the Marine version of the Tier IV GEVO with EGR instead..
So the railroad industry is not alone in seeking a different Tier iv solution that what is now the standard in trucks and other heavy equipment..
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Re: EMD Tier 4 locomotives delayed until 2017

Postby Krusty » Mon Sep 07, 2015 6:33 am

Trains magazine has a picture of EMDX 92 at La Grange. The caption states it is a Tier 4 test bed. The article also states EMD will produce five demonstrators for testing on a Western railroad and construction is underway at Muncie. (Guss, Chris. "Here Comes Tier 4." Trains Oct. 2015: 16. Print.) The picture in Trains does not look much different from one posted in September 2014. The former SD89MAC prototype looks to be modified as a test bed for the F125 and Caterpillar C175-20 engine. (Poulos, G. "EMDX 92 0154 9-7-14." EMDX 92 0154 9-7-14. N.p., n.d. Web. 04 Sept. 2015. <http://eyepilot13.deviantart.com/art/EMDX-92-0154-9-7-14-481564501>.)
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Re: EMD Tier 4 locomotives delayed until 2017

Postby Krusty » Mon Sep 07, 2015 6:36 am

Despite my assumption the Tier 4 EMDs will be based at least partially on the 4-cycle 256H, EMD still touts the 2-cycle 710: "The EMD two-cycle engine has responded well to the technologies required to meet these standards, and we expect to have more efficient and cost effective solutions due to inherent advantages over four-cycle engines." ("Progress Rail Services: Products › Power Products." Progress Rail Services: Products › Power Products. Caterpillar, 08 Apr. 2015. Web. 06 Sept. 2015. <http://www.progressrail.com/powerproducts>.)
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Re: EMD Tier 4 locomotives delayed until 2017

Postby MEC407 » Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:57 am

So now they're working with three different engine types/technologies? Sounds like they're just throwing anything/everything at the wall to see what sticks.
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Re: EMD Tier 4 locomotives delayed until 2017

Postby NorthWest » Mon Sep 07, 2015 11:11 am

I interpret that as meaning that although EMD failed to meet the standards for the 710 (and I think they got very close but just couldn't make it) and has stopped attempting to make it work, the technology that they did develop could be used to make 710 export units and the ECO series cleaner. It also may be an outdated section of website. I think that the 265H-derived engine will be the main domestic engine going forward.

The C175 was what Vossloh is using in their new European locomotives once the 710 failed to meet emissions standards. From what I have seen and read, Vossloh had a large hand F125, building the body shells and providing design help based on their Eurolight and UKlight locomotives.
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Re: EMD Tier 4 locomotives delayed until 2017

Postby v8interceptor » Thu Sep 10, 2015 12:14 pm

There is no online link but the current issue of Railway age features a Progress Rail ad announcing the SD70Ace T4.
Among the locomotive features mentioned in the ad is the "4 cycle 12 cylinder 1010 engine". The 265 engine's cylinder displacement is approximately 1010 inches ("265" refers to the metric dimensions) so it appears that Cat/Progress/EMD has decided what they will call the modified engine variant.
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Re: EMD Tier 4 locomotives delayed until 2017

Postby Krusty » Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:15 pm

Are there any photos posted yet of a SD70Ace T4 that supposedly has been under construction at Muncie?
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Re: EMD Tier 4 locomotives delayed until 2017

Postby Fan Railer » Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:12 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9w7Ac1Cnsw

They're going with an updated 12 cylinder H engine (designated EMD 1010) good for 4600 BHP (4400 THP).

Spec sheet / brochure: http://www.progressrail.com/cda/files/4 ... 20_WEB.pdf
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Re: EMD Tier 4 locomotives delayed until 2017

Postby JayBee » Sun Oct 04, 2015 5:31 pm

Fan Railer wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9w7Ac1Cnsw

They're going with an updated 12 cylinder H engine (designated EMD 1010) good for 4600 BHP (4400 THP).

Spec sheet / brochure: http://www.progressrail.com/cda/files/4 ... 20_WEB.pdf


Minor correction it will be the 1010J3 not the 1010H3. The "J" indicates that the crankcase design has been modified from that used in the 265H engine. The final digit "3" indicates that the engine is turbocharged and intended for railroad locomotive usage. Undoubtedly there will be Marine variants, those for stationary and emergency power generation.
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Re: EMD Tier 4 locomotives delayed until 2017

Postby v8interceptor » Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:40 am

JayBee wrote:
Fan Railer wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9w7Ac1Cnsw

They're going with an updated 12 cylinder H engine (designated EMD 1010) good for 4600 BHP (4400 THP).

Spec sheet / brochure: http://www.progressrail.com/cda/files/4 ... 20_WEB.pdf


Minor correction it will be the 1010J3 not the 1010H3. The "J" indicates that the crankcase design has been modified from that used in the 265H engine. The final digit "3" indicates that the engine is turbocharged and intended for railroad locomotive usage. Undoubtedly there will be Marine variants, those for stationary and emergency power generation.


I guess there could be a marine/stationary variant but is Caterpillar really going to spend money to compete against itself?
They already offer the C280 engine family;which is in the same power range as the 1010 (in 12 cylinder form) for those applications and sales seem to be good. The C280 is a greatly improved evolution of the 3600 series engine, sort of like how the 1010 is evolved from the GM/EMD 265H.

[urlhttp://www.catpower.lt/upload/517/files/C280%20Tier%201.pdf][/url]

On another forum that I'm a member of, a poster who works with large industrial diesel engines said that it appears that the 1010 engine's Top deck is of similar design to the C280. I guess that being able to offer an EGR based emissions control system may be advantageous in some applications, Cats other Tier IV engines, including the C280, use SCR and I was recently reading a publication covering the Workboat/Tug industry that stated that SCR may not be ideal for vessels of that type.
But if there is a lot of C280 technology is used in the 1010 series then perhaps the 1010's EGR system can be adapted to the C280 (and maybe other Cat engine families like the C175).
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Re: EMD Tier 4 locomotives delayed until 2017

Postby v8interceptor » Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:14 pm

v8interceptor wrote:
JayBee wrote:
Fan Railer wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9w7Ac1Cnsw

They're going with an updated 12 cylinder H engine (designated EMD 1010) good for 4600 BHP (4400 THP).

Spec sheet / brochure: http://www.progressrail.com/cda/files/4 ... 20_WEB.pdf


Minor correction it will be the 1010J3 not the 1010H3. The "J" indicates that the crankcase design has been modified from that used in the 265H engine. The final digit "3" indicates that the engine is turbocharged and intended for railroad locomotive usage. Undoubtedly there will be Marine variants, those for stationary and emergency power generation.


I guess there could be a marine/stationary variant but is Caterpillar really going to spend money to compete against itself?
They already offer the C280 engine family;which is in the same power range as the 1010 (in 12 cylinder form) for those applications and sales seem to be good. The C280 is a greatly improved evolution of the 3600 series engine, sort of like how the 1010 is evolved from the GM/EMD 265H.

[urlhttp://www.catpower.lt/upload/517/files/C280%20Tier%201.pdf][/url]

On another forum that I'm a member of, a poster who works with large industrial diesel engines said that it appears that the 1010 engine's Top deck is of similar design to the C280. I guess that being able to offer an EGR based emissions control system may be advantageous in some applications, Cats other Tier IV engines, including the C280, use SCR and I was recently reading a publication covering the Workboat/Tug industry that stated that SCR may not be ideal for vessels of that type.
But if there is a lot of C280 technology is used in the 1010 series then perhaps the 1010's EGR system can be adapted to the C280 (and maybe other Cat engine families like the C175).



I actually misspoke in my earlier reply; the poster on the other forum suggested that there was some commonality in design between the Cat C175 engine and the new 1010 rather than the C280 engine family.. The C175-20 is being adapted for use in the new Progress/EMD F125 passenger locomotive,initially with SCR rather than EGR based Tier IV emission controls...
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Re: EMD Tier 4 locomotives delayed until 2017

Postby Ira » Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:54 pm

Boy... that there Texas GE plant will be sweating soon. EMD's tier 4 soon to be Rowling down the tracks. :wink:
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Re: EMD Tier 4 locomotives delayed until 2017

Postby MEC407 » Thu Dec 17, 2015 9:53 am

Lots of information here about the SD70ACe-T4 and the F125:

http://media.getransportation.com/sites ... p28-31.pdf
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Re: EMD Tier 4 locomotives delayed until 2017

Postby Krusty » Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:44 pm

Thank you, MEC407. The article helped me to better understand the Tier IV landscape. In particular, I found the explanation about EMD's move to developing the 1010 instead of continuing to try to make the 710 Tier IV compliant interesting.
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