Ex Milw skytop lounge and dome cars.

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Ex Milw skytop lounge and dome cars.

Postby warwgn3 » Fri Oct 07, 2011 2:51 pm

I know that in 1964, CN bought some Ex-Milw skytop lounge and full length dome cars for use on long haul trains such as the Super Continental, Chaleur, Ocean, Scotian, and Skeena, as seen in this photo.

Image

Does anyone know if these cars survived into the VIA Rail Blue and Gold Livery, or were they retired before the VIA take over of 1978?
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Re: Ex Milw skytop lounge and dome cars.

Postby chriskay » Fri Oct 07, 2011 4:45 pm

I found this info:

"CN renamed them "Skyview" cars, and used them mainly on their Halifax-Montreal trains, the 'Ocean Limited' and the 'Scotian', from 1965 to 1969. They saw brief service on Montreal-Toronto corridor trains in 1969, then moved to the Gaspé-Montreal and Jasper-Prince Rupert routes until their withdrawal from service in September 1971. Due to fire regulations (no rear door - only one access), the cars found no further use and 2 were scrapped in Canada and the other 4 sold back into the US."

Source here: http://www.trainweb.org/web_lurker/MILW/
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Re: Ex Milw skytop lounge and dome cars.

Postby jp1822 » Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:07 pm

Too bad a door, similiar in size etc., to that of the Park Car "rear door" couldn't have been made possible on these cars with some modification. However, in the 1970s, as much as CN was trying to keep the passenger trains going, I think there was just "so much" or "so far" they could do/go.

It was a shame to see all these neat dome cars and obervation cars disappear in the United States and Canada (even if operating only limitedly now in Canada on certain routes/trains). The US equivalent of VIA - Amtrak - has only ONE Great Dome left on its roster. Many others are in private hands or tour operators.

I do give some praise to VIA for realizing the historical or vintage value of its ex-CP stainless steel Budd equipment (i.e. Skyline Dome and Park [Dome/Lounge] Cars) that operate regularly on the Canadian, Chaleur (aka train to Gaspe), and Skeena (aka train to Prince Rupert). The Park [Dome/Lounge] Car is perhaps VIA's most sought after and "prized" car. Glad to see VIA somewhat realizes this with the marketing of it in their "Touring Class" on trains like the Ocean (seasonally). I wish VIA would put a few more Park Cars out on its route during various times of the year. However, with the current overhaul of four Park Dome/Lounge Cars, I realize the fleet is stretched a little thin - at times!
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Re: Ex Milw skytop lounge and dome cars.

Postby warwgn3 » Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:25 am

Thanks for the info. We are looking at building a model rail set. We have a set that can make up the Action Red "Pac-Man" era CP Rail Canadian, and we just ordered another Canadian set in the original Tuscan Red colours.

I would like to have a train set for most major routes that shows the timelines with the different paint schemes between the original Budd equipped CP Canadian/Dominion, and Pullman equipped CN Super Continental to the 80's VIA Blue and gold, and current VIA Silver and blue, and Rennaissance colurs.

So Far I know of the EX CP Budd Park cars that have been in service since 1955, and the EX CN, EX Milw Skytop cars that were in service between 1964-1971. Does anyone know if VIA ever had any type of tail end observation car for their Ex CN Pullman Blue and Gold livery?
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Re: Ex Milw skytop lounge and dome cars.

Postby jhdeasy » Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:29 pm

Earlier this year, MILW 15 COFFEE CREEK, later CN 1902 FUNDY, was sold. I believe the buyer was Iowa Pacific Holdings LLC, lead by Ed Ellis, a company that operates a number of shortlines in the USA.

The new owner has the resources to properly repair/refurbish this private car for luxury travel at mainline speeds on Amtrak and Via Rail Canada trains.
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Re: Ex Milw skytop lounge and dome cars.

Postby Tadman » Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:59 pm

Jack, that's great to hear. Thanks for spreading the word. Skytops are not only a neat train car, but a very important piece of industrial design - they may be the most prolific early work by Brooks Stevens.

@Warwgn, did the Canadian ever operate with carbon steel equipment? I was under the impression it was only run with stainless, while the maroon-painted carbon steel cars ran under other train names (IE Dominion, Atlantic, et al...)
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Re: Ex Milw skytop lounge and dome cars.

Postby CarterB » Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:30 pm

Anyone know if any chance Coffee Creek may go to Saratoga & North Creek? or more likely High Iron Travel for excursions?
Bring back the Slumbercoaches!!
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Re: Ex Milw skytop lounge and dome cars.

Postby Ken V » Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:36 pm

Tadman wrote:did the Canadian ever operate with carbon steel equipment? I was under the impression it was only run with stainless, while the maroon-painted carbon steel cars ran under other train names (IE Dominion, Atlantic, et al...)

CP regularly used carbon steel coaches on the Canadian before enough of the stainless steel Budd coaches were delivered, but these were clad in a stainless exterior to match the rest of the consist. I imagine other (maroon) cars could have been used at times but I am not aware of any specific instances. VIA Rail routinely mixed the ex-CPR Budd cars with ex-CNR equipment on its long distance trains, including the Canadian, up until the time the Budd fleet was converted to head end power and the blue-and-yellow (former CN) cars were retired.
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Re: Ex Milw skytop lounge and dome cars.

Postby NS VIA FAN » Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:47 am

Ken V wrote:
Tadman wrote:did the Canadian ever operate with carbon steel equipment? I was under the impression it was only run with stainless, while the maroon-painted carbon steel cars ran under other train names (IE Dominion, Atlantic, et al...)

CP regularly used carbon steel coaches on the Canadian before enough of the stainless steel Budd coaches were delivered, but these were clad in a stainless exterior to match the rest of the consist.....

When the Canadian was inaugurated in April 1955, CP had enough new Stainless Steel cars to fully equip the new train. What you are thinking of here are the U-Series Tourist Sleepers specifically re-built to be included in the Canadian consist. These were 1920’s era 14-Section Heavyweight cars with Stainless-Steel panels added to match the new equipment but they retained their clerestory roof. They were operated ahead of the Stainless Steel Coaches. Scroll down here for photo:

http://home.cogeco.ca/~bgrgroup/CPR_U_Sleeper.html
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Re: Ex Milw skytop lounge and dome cars.

Postby Ken V » Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:08 pm

NS VIA FAN wrote:What you are thinking of here are the U-Series Tourist Sleepers specifically re-built to be included in the Canadian consist. These were 1920’s era 14-Section Heavyweight cars with Stainless-Steel panels added to match the new equipment but they retained their clerestory roof. They were operated ahead of the Stainless Steel Coaches.

You are absolutely right. Thanks for the correction.
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Re: Ex Milw skytop lounge and dome cars.

Postby jhdeasy » Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:48 am

CarterB wrote:Anyone know if any chance Coffee Creek may go to Saratoga & North Creek? or more likely High Iron Travel for excursions?


First, keep in mind that the car still requires a lot of work to be recertified for use on Amtrak or Via Rail Canada trains, and to be ready for revenue service as a private car.

If it were operating under the High Iron Travel banner, one complication would be the question of which car is rearmost properly pointed; COFFEE CREEK or CARITAS?
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Re: Ex Milw skytop lounge and dome cars.

Postby Tadman » Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:13 pm

After re-reading Warwgn's post, I believe he's differentiating between eras of stainless equipment. The stainless equipment first had the maroon stripe above the windows, then later had the action red strip above the windows, corresponding with the way the diesels were painted.
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Re: Ex Milw skytop lounge and dome cars.

Postby Tom6921 » Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:07 pm

Many of the ex Milwaukee Road full length domes did make it to VIA and were painted in the Blue and Yellow livery. However I don't believe any survived the 1981 cuts.
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