Via Rail's Fleet Renewal Program

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Re: Via Rail's Fleet Renewal Program

Postby mdvle » Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:34 pm

The RFQ submission deadline should have passed a couple of hours ago, the short list of qualified applicants and the RFP should all be announced sometime this month.
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Re: Via Rail's Fleet Renewal Program

Postby mdvle » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:23 pm

And we have 4 contenders.

Bombardier Transportation Canada Inc.
Siemens Canada Limited
Stadler US Inc.
Talgo Inc.

All four now have until October 5 2018 to submit their proposal.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/via-rail-announces-trainset-manufacturers-participating-in-the-rfp-for-its-quebec-city-windsor-corridor-fleet-685825791.html
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Re: Via Rail's Fleet Renewal Program

Postby R36 Combine Coach » Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:57 pm

One of the first two seems likely.
Since my friend continues to chain smoke nonstop, she is probably an Alco.
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Re: Via Rail's Fleet Renewal Program

Postby Backshophoss » Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:38 pm

Don't Think BBD will win after what happened with TTC light rail and the London(UK),NYCTA contracts/deliveries.
Siemens the best bet to win!
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Re: Via Rail's Fleet Renewal Program

Postby electricron » Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:01 am

I'll admit I don't know what the various train manufactures will submit, but here are recent trains each makes.......
Bombardier Class 710 in England (4 car EMU - 25KVAC and 750VDC)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_710
Based on Bombardier "Aventra" trains.

Siemens Class 717 in England (6 car EMU - - 25KVAC and 750VDC)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_717
Based on Siemens "Desiro City" trains.

Stadler Class 755 in England (3 or 4 car EMU - 25KVAC)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_755
I would like to note there are DMU versions of FLIRTs being built in Utah.

Talgo Series 8 in USA
http://web.talgoamerica.com/images/Amra ... ed_opt.pdf
With Talgo coaches you provide the locomotive.

Yes, I know you're going to suggest that EMUs aren't in VIA's short term future, but these trains can have their EMU stuff removed to make a non-powered trailer rail car.
I just wanted to point out what these manufactures are building in Europe now.

All these manufacturers are capable of building non-powered trailers too.
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Re: Via Rail's Fleet Renewal Program

Postby mdvle » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:34 am

I would be very surprised if Siemens doesn't submit their existing Challenger/coaches that are in service in the US and thus will be a proven product (something VIA indicated an interest in) that should have minimal issues entering service.

The bigger question is just how likely the electrification dream is, and here I suspect that recent world events are shoving that farther into the future.

These trade wars / tariff battles are going to economically harm countries around the world, and as a result governments will likely be taking hits on their budgets - both from decreased revenue and increased costs as they try to stabilize the harmed industries.

Given this uncertainty I wouldn't be surprised if the federal government declines VIA's dedicated route plan, which while nominally claimed to be privately built would require the federal government to guarantee the project.

Similarly, it wouldn't surprise me if much of the planned electrification by Ontario gets shelved / postponed.
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Re: Via Rail's Fleet Renewal Program

Postby Mark0f0 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:16 pm

mdvle wrote:Similarly, it wouldn't surprise me if much of the planned electrification by Ontario gets shelved / postponed.


Yeah VIA has committed to continuing at least some service on the existing Corridor even if their hypothetical new corridor is built. Electrification carries enormous capital costs for which recovery at a reasonable return on capital probably would prove impossible. Any hypothetical savings at the engine maintenance shops will easily be consumed by additional costs of maintaining electrical systems out in the field.

Electrification might make sense for the GO corridors in close proximity to Toronto proper, but outside of that, likely is fairly nonsensical. Hopefully VIA doesn't end up discarding and/or limiting some great diesel-electric options merely due to the lack of future electrification capability being pre-engineered into the designs.
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Re: Via Rail's Fleet Renewal Program

Postby mtuandrew » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:33 pm

The future electrification requirement sounds like BBD leaned on the process to guarantee a spot for an ALP45DP-2. Then again, “compatible with future electrification” could just mean that the manufacturer offers favorable trade-in terms like two used diesels for one new electric.
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Re: Via Rail's Fleet Renewal Program

Postby dowlingm » Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:05 pm

Backshophoss wrote:Don't Think BBD will win after what happened with TTC light rail and the London(UK),NYCTA contracts/deliveries.
Siemens the best bet to win!
Siemens have probably the best equipment on the shelf, and can leverage Alstom Quebec for Canadian content, but I doubt anyone in VIA HQ (in Montreal) cares what happened in Toronto. It's just... how things work.
http://montrealgazette.com/news/local-n ... etro-order
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Re: Via Rail's Fleet Renewal Program

Postby Tadman » Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:22 pm

When they say they want the ability to convert modes, what does that mean? I'm not the brightest man on the block, but wouldn't it make sense to use that old trick known as the "coupler" and buy new straight electrics or bi-modes? Rather than buy something that might never be used?
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Re: Via Rail's Fleet Renewal Program

Postby mdvle » Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:55 pm

Tadman wrote:When they say they want the ability to convert modes, what does that mean? I'm not the brightest man on the block, but wouldn't it make sense to use that old trick known as the "coupler" and buy new straight electrics or bi-modes? Rather than buy something that might never be used?


The Request for Proposals (section 1.2(3)) says
the initial order of 32 trainsets will be diesel powered only, with a required provision for future diesel and electric operation


My guess - even though VIA apparently has a preference for a loco / coach solution I don't see anything in the RfP that states that. Thus by putting that requirement in they are simply preventing someone from submitting a diesel only DMU as an entry.

Thus as you say if a diesel and coaches solution is submitted then it would be easy to then transition to a new electric loco in the future, or possibly even bimode.

Similar, if someone wants to submit a multiple unit solution then that multiple unit must be designed so that it is diesel powered when delivered but can be upgraded in the future to electric operation as well.
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Re: Via Rail's Fleet Renewal Program

Postby electricron » Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:14 pm

A Stadler FLIRT trainset is an EMU which can have a diesel electric power car added to provide power without wires overhead. Any DMU design using diesel electric propulsion vs using a mechanical gear box or transmission could meet VIA’s RFP, Stadler isn’t the only European manufacturer using diesel electric propulsion with a DMU.
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Re: Via Rail's Fleet Renewal Program

Postby mdvle » Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:37 pm

But the point is that the request is suitably generic and thus doesn't make assumptions on what may be proposed.

The key would be even if submitting a DMU design that uses electric motors that space is reserved for the transformers and/or other equipment to possibly in the future convert the (presumably) 25kv overhead to whatever the internal train bus to the motors uses, as well as the ability to convert it to power the onboard systems.

Similarly the bodyshell would need to include the space / frame structure for the pantograph well(s).

It may well be the Stadler North American product already does this, but all the specification for VIA does is ensure that any design from Stadler or others does do the appropriate things. If the specification did not make this clear than a bidder may well leave those design elements out in order to reduce the unit cost, thus making the bid cheaper.
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Re: Via Rail's Fleet Renewal Program

Postby FAPSTL » Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:54 am

Open comment re: VIA Fleet Renewal Procurement Protocol:
Attempting to acquire bid docs/data/dwgs. for review and proposal of critical OEM sub-system to each shortlisted bidder, however, VIA is restricting this solicitation info to the shortlist bidders. Not a very transparent approach from an organization that has promoted transparency throughout this program......

Reply to doc request -
The bid package, including the technical specifications and related data / drawings have been made available only to the shortlisted builders.
VIA Rail does not intend to distribute the information to subcontractors.
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Re: Via Rail's Fleet Renewal Program

Postby John_Perkowski » Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:43 pm

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