Mishap at Union Station, Utica, NY

Discussion related to New York, Susquehanna & Western operations past and present. Also includes some discussion related to Deleware Otsego owned and operated shortlines. Official web site can be found here: NYSW.COM.

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Re: Utica Derailment 7/21: Union Station Damaged

Postby Benjamin Maggi » Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:04 pm

sd80mac wrote: another positive thing, but not what we wanted in this kind of case, is that organization are getting money from NYSW (most likely - cant be coming from 13 yr old kid's family as they don't have money) ...


Has it already been determined the cause of the runaway car? I haven't seen a link to an article that told the known cause.
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Re: Utica Derailment 7/21: Union Station Damaged

Postby O-6-O » Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:28 pm

For sure from a pure disaster standpoint the 6721 was a 'hero". No doubt 134 ton rolling 40 per would have cleaned that entire
new ell off the end of the station and very well may have dropped the overhead walkway down across the main. Too nasty to think
about really. Obviously I can't get close enough to "inspect" the engine but the cast steel pilot looks tweeked from a side view
about 40 ft away so..it's anybodies guess how much actual damage was done. If it cracked the steam chest or cylinder assemblies
IMHO that engine will never run again under steam. I'm not an expert but that just my thoughts. We'll have to wait until the hopper
is clear to really tell. Hopper is an easy fix looking at it. Now if I were a judge an we lived in a world were real justice was done,
that kid would be putting LOTS of time in learning the "fine art" of needle scalling as he paid for his part in this with sweat equity.
I'm a hard case like that.
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Re: Utica Derailment 7/21: Union Station Damaged

Postby sd80mac » Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:33 pm

Benjamin Maggi wrote:
sd80mac wrote: another positive thing, but not what we wanted in this kind of case, is that organization are getting money from NYSW (most likely - cant be coming from 13 yr old kid's family as they don't have money) ...


Has it already been determined the cause of the runaway car? I haven't seen a link to an article that told the known cause.


Yes. Someone posted link 2 pages ago.
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Re: Utica Derailment 7/21: Union Station Damaged

Postby scharnhorst » Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:07 pm

sd80mac wrote:
litz wrote:I wonder how many of these types of things are going to happen before we have to start locking brake release handles with switch locks ....

(and yes, I know that would require modifications ....)



I believe that all sidings that are used for setting out the cars purpose, not for trains bypassing each other, should be bowled like the yards with some kind of calculated % of climb toward to switch that cars cannot power by itself to get up and through switch. The "bottom out" bowl should be set at middle of siding. And all cars should be set out at that bottom out portion of siding.


I noticed that one of the Small Short lines here in Oklahoma uses small wheel chocks on both ends of any standing cars when there is no derail. They often have between 8 and 10 chocks on there locomotives attached to hooks under the frame. Maybe something like this could be done as an extra for security just in case something like that were to happen again?
no matter the weather or the country I'll still be trackside!
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Re: Utica Derailment 7/21: Union Station Damaged

Postby O-6-O » Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:53 pm

I know the CMRR skates their equipment to prevent the Kingston "off duty car inspectors" from doing roll bys. They also chock chain some long standing equipment for safety as well.

Adds a little time but not much. Runaways are never a good thing and the fact that this has happened before in Utica is what has me so pizzed.
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Re: Utica Derailment 7/21: Union Station Damaged

Postby scharnhorst » Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:15 pm

O-6-O wrote:I know the CMRR skates their equipment to prevent the Kingston "off duty car inspectors" from doing roll bys. They also chock chain some long standing equipment for safety as well.

Adds a little time but not much. Runaways are never a good thing and the fact that this has happened before in Utica is what has me so pizzed.


This has happed before?? Sounds like NYSW is getting a little careless or a bit to lax on there operations! Maybe a review of how they do things should be called into review by the FRA to find a solution to prevent these things from happening is in store?
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Re: Utica Derailment 7/21: Union Station Damaged

Postby Kuyahoora Valley » Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:25 am

Aftermath of previous runaway: Erie Lackawanna Freighthouse/Susquehanna enginehouse. I think it was 1989. 1802 had just been repainted
Run5.JPG

Run6.JPG

Run1.JPG
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Re: Utica Derailment 7/21: Union Station Damaged

Postby Kuyahoora Valley » Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:27 am

Run2.JPG
Can see 3614 peeking out from behind the roofing
Run3.JPG

Run4.JPG
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Re: Utica Derailment 7/21: Union Station Damaged

Postby tree68 » Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:01 pm

scharnhorst wrote:This has happened before?? Sounds like NYSW is getting a little careless or a bit to lax on there operations! Maybe a review of how they do things should be called into review by the FRA to find a solution to prevent these things from happening is in store?

If the previous incident happened in 1989, there's a good chance most of the folks involved are retired by now...

Two incidents in 25 years does not a trend make.
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Re: Utica Derailment 7/21: Union Station Damaged

Postby sd80mac » Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:32 am

tree68 wrote:
scharnhorst wrote:This has happened before?? Sounds like NYSW is getting a little careless or a bit to lax on there operations! Maybe a review of how they do things should be called into review by the FRA to find a solution to prevent these things from happening is in store?

If the previous incident happened in 1989, there's a good chance most of the folks involved are retired by now...

Two incidents in 25 years does not a trend make.


And this incident has nothing to do with employee's performance.
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Re: Utica Derailment 7/21: Union Station Damaged

Postby sd80mac » Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:38 am

And kid claimed that he accident set car in motion... How can he accident turn the hand brake to set it loose? I think that it takes few quarter turns to release the brake...

http://www.cnycentral.com/m/news/story?id=1235973
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Re: Utica Derailment 7/21: Union Station Damaged

Postby sd80mac » Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:47 am

Kuyahoora Valley wrote:
Run2.JPG
Can see 3614 peeking out from behind the roofing



So 1804 was inside the shop when group of blue boxs ( I think that what you guys call these CSX's box car in blues) went into shop rammed into 1804 and pushed 1804 back.

I can see that box car _____3614 is not the same one as one that was just inside the door. So how many box cars are inside the shop? I'm just asking to see how far locomotive was pushed back. It appears that loco was right at the shop door and the door is trapped between loco and box car 3614. It look like it's part of roof but it's the same metal sheet and plywood as the shop door in the pic where box cars are entering the shop.


I dont know the whole story about this one. I wasn't aware of this. Sorry if I asked about this one.
Last edited by sd80mac on Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Utica Derailment 7/21: Union Station Damaged

Postby Kuyahoora Valley » Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:41 am

You're right it is the door. I thought 1802 was facing inward and that was from the roof collapse but doesn't explain the boxcar. The __1602 boxcar is not the same one poking out the door so there are at least 2 inside the building. There were seven cars on the runaway which started at Scheidleman's Warehouse
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Re: Utica Derailment 7/21: Union Station Damaged

Postby BandA » Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:02 am

Theoretically, the kid's parents could lose their house & assets over this. Or the hopper could be an "attractive nuisance" and the owner of the siding could be responsible for not securing the area.

I would assume they have to disassemble a bunch of stuff on that engine to find any hidden damage.

And where do you find an insurance adjuster specializing in steam, lol
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Re: Utica Derailment 7/21: Union Station Damaged

Postby sd80mac » Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:57 pm

BandA wrote:I would assume they have to disassemble a bunch of stuff on that engine to find any hidden damage.

And where do you find an insurance adjuster specializing in steam, lol



I dont think they need to do that. 0-6-0 said that it will never run again. Since it is just a static display. And if it looks good and straight on exterior parts, it's fine.

People in NYSW shop can look at it and write up the estimates. I wouldn't be surprise if they want to fix it up - probably cheaper to fix it by themselves than hire someone to do the job. BTW where can NYSW or organization can send loco to? CSX wont allow them to go on their rails. probably more costly to put on flat car or flatbed trailer and transport it. NYSW can move it on their own rail ( I think that NYSW got grant or funds to repair the washout between Utica and Binghamton. But i'm not sure if they had repaired that line yet. Didn't NYSW closed their locomotive shop in utica few years ago?

BTW.... I was told that Class 1 RR dont need insurance. they got tons of money to pay for any cost for any incidents.. Im not sure if NYSW have insurance or not...
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