Ethanol Trains to Revere

Guilford Rail System changed its name to Pan Am Railways in 2006. Discussion relating to the current operations of the Boston & Maine, the Maine Central, and the Springfield Terminal railroads (as well as the Delaware & Hudson while it was under Guilford control until 1988). Official site can be found here: PANAMRAILWAYS.COM.

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Re: Ethanol Trains to Revere

Postby GaryAF » Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:46 pm

Has this affected the local price of ethanol and gasoline yet?

I would enjoy reading an announcement from local fuel suppliers
that the price of gas is going up because of this, which
is probably why I'd make a lousy PR agent ("Arrrr, let's
stick it in their faces and damn the consequences!").

Gary
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Re: Ethanol Trains to Revere

Postby gokeefe » Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:29 pm

CN9634 wrote:I believe Portland and Portsmouth have been discussed in the past as alternative sites..


That would be a nice pickup for South Portland.
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Re: Ethanol Trains to Revere

Postby octr202 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:04 am

CN9634 wrote:I believe Portland and Portsmouth have been discussed in the past as alternative sites..


Yeah, I've certainly wondered how long it will be before Global and others simply try to shift as much of their fuel terminal operations to RI, NH or ME rather than continue to operate out of Revere/Chelsea - i.e., where's the tipping point when the increased costs of inbound shipments outweighs the costs of expanding infrastructure out of state and the cost of trucking deliveries to MA from those facilities.

The other irony is that as long as Pan Am and NS are involved in those other potential facilities (especially NH or ME locations), that ethanol will still be moving through some dense cities in Massachusetts...and there won't be any legal way to stop those moves.
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Re: Ethanol Trains to Revere

Postby highrail » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:44 am

An article in the Globe today indicates that Global has dropped plans to ship through Chelsea/Revere. The plans appear dead for now.
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Re: Ethanol Trains to Revere

Postby newpylong » Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:34 am

BostonUrbEx wrote:Does anyone know Pan Am's trackage right fee that they pay the MBTA? My rough estimate suggests that the MBTA would have gained $350k/year from this deal had it not been blocked. I'm using figures which suggest CSX pays 45 cents per car per mile when on MBTA trackage.


There are no trackage fees either way. A couple years ago Pan Am granted the MBTA rights on most if not all of their routes in the greater Boston area for future commuter rail use. In return, Pan Am doesn't pay the MBTA a dime to use their tracks.
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Re: Ethanol Trains to Revere

Postby hh660 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:50 am

The spur from Rigby to Turner's Island would be perfect for this. It was previously used for tank car loading and is near Global's S.Portland facility-dock and tank farm.

S
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Re: Ethanol Trains to Revere

Postby MEC407 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:13 am

I think we could expect some protestations from some of the residents of that neighborhood in South Portland... but the other side of the coin is that South Portland's planning board and city council tend to be very business-friendly, and the city has a long history of hosting everything from coal to crude oil to jet fuel. I expect that the neighborhood objections wouldn't be so much about the trains, but rather they'd be about the resultant increase in truck traffic, which is already quite substantial.
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Re: Ethanol Trains to Revere

Postby rb » Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:58 am

Someone mentioned Portsmouth/Newington already. I have to wonder if that would work better due to the pre-existing infrastructure in a mostly industrial environment.

I wonder what the cost efficiencies would look like: rail to NH/ME, then barge to Boston, vs. rail to Albany and then barge to Boston. How much of the ethanol going to Providence ends up getting barged to Boston?
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Re: Ethanol Trains to Revere

Postby CN9634 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:22 pm

hh660 wrote:The spur from Rigby to Turner's Island would be perfect for this. It was previously used for tank car loading and is near Global's S.Portland facility-dock and tank farm.

S


This is exactly what the talk is/was for Portland.
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Re: Ethanol Trains to Revere

Postby Teamdriver » Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:00 am

Global mostly uses the ethanol to mix in with its Mobil gas wholesaling business. They get ethanol from Motiva in Providence, and barge it up to Revere / Chlesea / E Boston petro complex. I am not current as to where the actual Mobil hauls out of , but Mobil itself had a terminal on the creek by the Chelsea street bridge in East Boston , and also one down in East Providence .As they already have ethanol in RI, they just might shift the shipping point of the finished Mobil gas product, diverting some of the haulage southward, or maybe even explore new and improved facilities in , say , Braintree / Quincy , or Fall River. They are already re assessing their overall tankage stragedy in the northeast (
June 5, 2013 [OPIS] - Capital Terminal Company (CTC), a distillate terminal owner and operator in Providence Harbor, R.I., said on Tuesday that it is looking for new tenants after a breakdown in sale negotiation with Global Companies LLC of Massachusetts. http://www.tankterminals.com/news_detail.php?id=2371)

Also Hess is getting out of retail distribution, and they will have tankage infra structure out there to be disposed of. Add this all in to the hornets nest of hauling petroleum around Boston , and the latest rejection of the rail scenario, who knows what will happen. Its all a crap shot.
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Re: Ethanol Trains to Revere

Postby Mcoov » Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:49 pm

Well there goes any hope of seeing mainline freight on the Fitchburg for the foreseeable future.
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Re: Ethanol Trains to Revere

Postby Teamdriver » Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:58 am

Mcoov wrote:Well there goes any hope of seeing mainline freight on the Fitchburg for the foreseeable future.

Have to be flexible in this day and age, tugboats are our friends too !

http://www.bostontowboat.com/Our_Fleet.aspx
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Re: Ethanol Trains to Revere

Postby bostontrainguy » Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:23 am

Oh crap . . . I guess they were right!!!

Unit Oil Train Derailment Incinerates Québec Town

http://www.railfan.com/railnews/
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Re: Ethanol Trains to Revere

Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:13 pm

Mcoov wrote:Well there goes any hope of seeing mainline freight on the Fitchburg for the foreseeable future.


Well...that NIMBY fight probably would've forced them back to the NH Main before this service ever got underway, so that routing was never a guarantee.
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Re: Ethanol Trains to Revere

Postby boatsmate » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:13 am

There is already a Steady Flow of Barge Traffic from Providence to Boston - its a fairly short trip from Port of Prov to Boston. through the canal. the new ATB Tugs (articulating Tug Barge) combination that are being used now are not only faster but can operate in weather that the older conventional wire tugs can not. There is an ATB on a regular run to Boston that carries Ethanol from either Boston or Providence. 100,000 Barrels at a whack. and they can unload quicker than the train can...... so will have to see if this will be an increase for the P&W to Providence.
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