Pan Am Southern / Patriot Corridor Discussion

Guilford Rail System changed its name to Pan Am Railways in 2006. Discussion relating to the current operations of the Boston & Maine, the Maine Central, and the Springfield Terminal railroads (as well as the Delaware & Hudson while it was under Guilford control until 1988). Official site can be found here: PANAMRAILWAYS.COM.

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Re: Pan Am Southern / Patriot Corridor Discussion

Postby Cowford » Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:46 am

That is quite the opposite. EHH is good for the railroads books, not the operations.


Hunter is unlikely to create a kinder, gentler CSX, but I'd caution against misinterpreting his efficiency tactics with corporate destruction. CP revenue ton-miles grew under Hunter until the freight recession set in... while total trains miles fell precipitously. And CP's employment went from 16,900 to 11,700. I am neither endorsing nor criticizing his methods - they create benefits, but also have drawbacks and the employee toll can be significant.

Railroads are not charities, and stair-step efficiency improvements are a critical path for the industry's future.
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Re: Pan Am Southern / Patriot Corridor Discussion

Postby Safetee » Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:32 am

CSX despite a potential terrific freight franchise from the north east to the southeast and from the east coast to the misissippi, as it is right now does a miserable job with it's car load freight. CSX in terms of transport excellence is all about intermodal and judging by their new contract with Schneider does a good job at it. I dont believe that Harrison is a carload by carload kind of guy, so if it's not in trainload lots i dont see any chance of improvement there. Of course there's coal, but despite the promises of DT i see that traffic continuing to stall and dwindle. That leaves intermodal which i'm not clear that you really want to tinker with. Throw in the fact that CSX does not exactly have a stellar safety record of late, well there's alot of work to do at CSX but i'm not clear they've got the right surgeon. Well after they shut down the yards, tear up the tracks, sell the locomotives and cars, fire the train crews, yes after the scourge will there still be a semblance of a railroad that can do more than move containers quickly from chicago to new york? One can always hope but in my opinion the formula that worked for reforming a viable CP may be poison for a CSX .
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Re: Pan Am Southern / Patriot Corridor Discussion

Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:09 am

PAS vs. NECR, Round XXVII: https://www.stb.gov/filings/all.nsf/ba7 ... 242817.pdf

The latest reply from PAS's legal counsel is a pretty salty read. The Pony's clearly had enough with the delay tactics and wants to get this show on the road.
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Re: Pan Am Southern / Patriot Corridor Discussion

Postby gokeefe » Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:22 pm

Interesting tactical statement that may push NECR/G&W to settle this.
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Re: Pan Am Southern / Patriot Corridor Discussion

Postby ebtmikado » Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:44 am

F-line to Dudley via Park wrote:PAS vs. NECR, Round XXVII: https://www.stb.gov/filings/all.nsf/ba7 ... 242817.pdf

The latest reply from PAS's legal counsel is a pretty salty read. The Pony's clearly had enough with the delay tactics and wants to get this show on the road.


This is the first time I've seen mention of this dispute. Is there any way, in 100 words or less, that it can be explained what it's all about?

Thanks,
Lee
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Re: Pan Am Southern / Patriot Corridor Discussion

Postby newpylong » Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:23 am

Yes, NECR is challenging the long standing (1989?) trackage right fees for the B&M on the Conn River. This challenge stemmed from their anger in losing business to Pan Am and trying to get back at them.
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Re: Pan Am Southern / Patriot Corridor Discussion

Postby ebtmikado » Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:06 am

OK. Thanks.
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Re: Pan Am Southern / Patriot Corridor Discussion

Postby CPF363 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:32 pm

It is frustrating that this whole thing is still ongoing, especially when the line used to be a part of the Boston & Maine to begin with. Guilford should have just fixed up the track for Amtrak back in the 1980s or sold the line outright. Wonder how much the track work might have cost verses all of the legal fees?
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Re: Pan Am Southern / Patriot Corridor Discussion

Postby Safetee » Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:26 pm

when the feds/amtrak took away the conn river from Gford, the thinking was that they were making that move solely so that they, Amtrak, could be assured that sufficient care would be taken of the railroad track in order to run their trains in a safe and viable fashion between east northfield, m,a and white river jct. vt. B&Ms freight traffic in that area was not touched in the deal, and as a consequence the local freight along that corridor is rightfully still Pan Ams today.
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Re: Pan Am Southern / Patriot Corridor Discussion

Postby newpylong » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:30 am

CPF363 wrote:It is frustrating that this whole thing is still ongoing, especially when the line used to be a part of the Boston & Maine to begin with. Guilford should have just fixed up the track for Amtrak back in the 1980s or sold the line outright. Wonder how much the track work might have cost verses all of the legal fees?


If they sold the line outright then they probably would have lost nearly free trackage rights. Getting it taken away but retaining rights is exactly the modus operandi for these guys.
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Re: Pan Am Southern / Patriot Corridor Discussion

Postby gokeefe » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:58 pm

Very much agreed. Legal fees definitely cost less than trackwork.
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Re: Pan Am Southern / Patriot Corridor Discussion

Postby CPF363 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:43 pm

newpylong wrote:If they sold the line outright then they probably would have lost nearly free trackage rights. Getting it taken away but retaining rights is exactly the modus operandi for these guys.

However, did the CV, now the NECR obtain the ability to serve the customers on the portion that was condemned between West River to Windsor, where as prior to the condemnation the said customers on that section were exclusively B&M customers?
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Re: Pan Am Southern / Patriot Corridor Discussion

Postby newpylong » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:00 pm

They did not - unless the customer built a new siding, which would allow them choice of carriers.
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Re: Pan Am Southern / Patriot Corridor Discussion

Postby B&M 1227 » Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:14 pm

Wasn't ownership split halfway up? Northfield-Windsor B&M and Windsor-WRJ CV? Was this just for maintenance purposes?
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Re: Pan Am Southern / Patriot Corridor Discussion

Postby Allouette » Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:47 am

CV always owned the section from Windsor to White River Jct, which was operated as joint track with B&M under arrangements dating back before 1900. CV and B&M operated Northfield-Brattleboro as paired track (CV south, B&M north) until B&M's bridge over the Connecticut at Northfield failed around 1969. After that both railroads used CV's track on the west side of the river. The section conveyed to CV in 1987 was Brattleboro-Windsor.

CV renumbered the B&M mileposts from New London, extending the Palmer Sub to Windsor. Miles were B&M "S" miles plus 61, i.e. MP S107 became Palmer Sub 168. CV Roxbury Sub mileposts start at 0 at Windsor (White River Jct. is around 14.8).
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