Brightline aka All Aboard Florida Orlando - Miami FL FEC

Discussion relating to the FEC operations, past and present. Includes Brightline. Official web site can be found here: FECRWY.COM.

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Re: Brightline aka All Aboard Florida Orlando - Miami FL FEC

Postby Bonevalleyrailfan » Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:20 pm

Gilbert B Norman wrote:
WP-McCOy continues to be set back; I will get no personal "I told you so" satisfaction, as I would have definitely taken a "bumper post to bumper post" joyride.

All told, I think the AAF end game will be a B-School case study. I think there will be many an avenue for students to analyze "what went wrong".


Mr. Norman, having followed AAF since the very beginning 5 years ago and having been in communications with AAF/FECI people over the years, I can perhaps give you a different sense of what is going on with AAF than what you seem to think.

AAF is not content with being a WPB to Miami "super commuter" operation. They have no plans to abandon the phase 2 segment between WPB and Orlando. As we all agree, phase 1 by itself is not viable. There is too much money already sunk into phase 1 that would allow them to give up so easily on Phase 2 as you suggest by your comments. You seem to consider that phase 2 has already been decided a lost cause. It most definitely has not. AAF has reached a point where local opposition is fading, permits are being acquired, and the realization on the TC that AAF is real and not going away has been building recently. Some opponents are now talking of ways to help mitigate the impact of AAF instead of trying to stop it, unlike just 18 months ago when they thought they had the upper hand. I don't have insight into the financial dealings, but I do know that FECI/AAF is looking long term. They don't need to have phase 2 built quickly.

If you stop to consider that just 30 months ago, nothing was built. Not a single foot of track, not a single building foundation. Yet, the naysayers seem ready to declare it's game over because of delay in start up. I look at it quite differently. In 30 months time, 3 stations have been constructed, 2 of which are complete and the 3rd is within months of being ready. 70+ miles of railway corridor has been mostly transformed into a 2 track mainline with high speed crossovers and PTC. This trackwork will also be completed within a few months time. Under the normal conditions in the USA, these events would have taken maybe 10 or 20+ years from initiation to completion. AAF has done all of this since June 2012 when FECI gave it the initial go ahead.

That is 5 years and 7 months from concept to operation in the face of many obstacles. Tell me again Mr. Norman, how that will be a "B-School case study" in failure?
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Re: Brightline aka All Aboard Florida Orlando - Miami FL FEC

Postby Gilbert B Norman » Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:49 am

McClatchey's Miami Herald has additional coverage of this latest "launch delay", or however one wishes to refer to AAF'S "status":

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/busines ... 62727.html

The Fair Use quotation addresses information not previously reported here:

Brightline has been conducting test runs of four of its trains over the last few months in West Palm Beach. Last week, the company began running trains through the Miami corridor for the first time.


How close to Central that train got was not reported. There is also good quality video of the construction there, but volks, it is simply not ready, or even close, to handle a revenue passenger train of any varietal.

Finally to Mr. Bonevalley, even though I have been skeptical of this initiative since it was announced during '12 (I initially considered it a ploy to "fatten up the livestock" for a sale of the FEC Ry to the State - the party most in interest considering the "heap big wampum" dumped into the Ports for Neo-PANAMAX traffic), I respect your optimism, along with that of Mr.
Weaver's, for the success of this initiative as proposed. I have "come on down" for likely the last thirty years, and Good Lord willing, continue into the future. I certainly will be dropping my "copper in the hopper" for a joyride - and maybe even "bumper to bumper".
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Re: Brightline aka All Aboard Florida Orlando - Miami FL FEC

Postby Ridgefielder » Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:40 am

Bonevalleyrailfan wrote:If you stop to consider that just 30 months ago, nothing was built. Not a single foot of track, not a single building foundation. Yet, the naysayers seem ready to declare it's game over because of delay in start up. I look at it quite differently. In 30 months time, 3 stations have been constructed, 2 of which are complete and the 3rd is within months of being ready. 70+ miles of railway corridor has been mostly transformed into a 2 track mainline with high speed crossovers and PTC. This trackwork will also be completed within a few months time. Under the normal conditions in the USA, these events would have taken maybe 10 or 20+ years from initiation to completion. AAF has done all of this since June 2012 when FECI gave it the initial go ahead.

Not to mention the rolling stock. As far as I can figure out, the Brightline cars are the first new-design single level conventional (i.e. non-MU, non-permanently coupled) passenger cars to hit US rails since the Amfleet I in 1975.
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Re: Brightline aka All Aboard Florida Orlando - Miami FL FEC

Postby OrangeGrove » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:02 pm

The Viewliner cars were certainly a new design and better fit the criteria, dating from the late 80's; Amfleet, of course, was itself not actually a new design, being based on the Metroliner MU cars.
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Re: Brightline aka All Aboard Florida Orlando - Miami FL FEC

Postby Gilbert B Norman » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:37 pm

Mr. Ridgefield, I believe you will find that the AAF cars have drawn heavily (but not off the shelf) from Siemens cars in service on the DB, OBB, Czech, Hungarian, and other Eastern EU systems as well.

Mr. Grove, credit for the Amfleets also goes to Pioneer III, from which their undercarriage and running gear were drawn. Budd developed circa 1957, but never sold a non-powered Pioneer other than the two prototypes to anyone.

Meanwhile, back on AAF, the earlier linked Herald article notes that there have been test runs into Miami. There is a photo taken of "Green" at the "zika scare" Wynwood Art District, or about 25th St. N, i.e. 25 blocks to go to Central.
Last edited by Gilbert B Norman on Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:59 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Brightline aka All Aboard Florida Orlando - Miami FL FEC

Postby Jeff Smith » Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:03 pm

Someone remind me: do these train sets have traps, or are they high level only? They could always stop and discharge in the middle of a busy street... you know, like on the Treasure Coast or just short of Miami Central?

:P :wink: :P :wink: :-D
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Re: Brightline aka All Aboard Florida Orlando - Miami FL FEC

Postby OrangeGrove » Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:25 pm

It is my understanding there are no traps on the Brightline equipment; Boarding will be strictly from high-level platforms.
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Re: Brightline aka All Aboard Florida Orlando - Miami FL FEC

Postby ExCon90 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:48 pm

electricron wrote:I found this link today with design criteria for the Brightline coaches containing interesting information and customer choices many may find interesting.

http://www.highspeed-rail.org/Documents ... mens-2.pdf

According to this (bottom of page 66 of this thread, page 5/12 of the link) there is a provision for low-level boarding, but it doesn't say whether it was actually being installed; in any case, it would seem to be useful only in emergencies because of extended dwell time.
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Re: Brightline aka All Aboard Florida Orlando - Miami FL FEC

Postby electricron » Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:53 pm

Brightline didn't want or need traps for low platform boarding because they decided to build high plaforms at all of their stations. But Siemens could install the traps for another customer who has low platforms with already existing mini-high platforms at their train stations.
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Re: Brightline aka All Aboard Florida Orlando - Miami FL FEC

Postby mtuandrew » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:45 pm

electricron wrote:But Siemens could install the traps for another customer who has low platforms with already existing mini-high platforms at their train stations.

Maybe a customer whose name starts with A and ends in mtrak. :P (tbh VIA needs them too)
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Re: Brightline aka All Aboard Florida Orlando - Miami FL FEC

Postby R36 Combine Coach » Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:09 pm

Gilbert B Norman wrote:Mr. Ridgefield, I believe you will find that the AAF cars have drawn heavily (but not off the shelf) from Siemens cars in service on the DB, OBB, Czech, Hungarian, and other Eastern EU systems as well.

Mr. Grove, credit for the Amfleets also goes to Pioneer III, from which their undercarriage and running gear were drawn. Budd developed circa 1957, but never sold a non-powered Pioneer other than the two prototypes to anyone.

Depending on how the Comet V is considered (based on the 1970-2001 Pullman/Bombardier single level), but all stainless and a radical break in design from the existing (but trainline compatible).
Since my friend continues to chain smoke nonstop, she is probably an Alco.
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Re: Brightline aka All Aboard Florida Orlando - Miami FL FEC

Postby CentralValleyRail » Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:21 am

Gilbert B Norman wrote:McClatchey's Miami Herald has additional coverage of this latest "launch delay", or however one wishes to refer to AAF'S "status":

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/busines ... 62727.html

The Fair Use quotation addresses information not previously reported here:

Brightline has been conducting test runs of four of its trains over the last few months in West Palm Beach. Last week, the company began running trains through the Miami corridor for the first time.


How close to Central that train got was not reported. There is also good quality video of the construction there, but volks, it is simply not ready, or even close, to handle a revenue passenger train of any varietal.

Finally to Mr. Bonevalley, even though I have been skeptical of this initiative since it was announced during '12 (I initially considered it a ploy to "fatten up the livestock" for a sale of the FEC Ry to the State - the party most in interest considering the "heap big wampum" dumped into the Ports for Neo-PANAMAX traffic), I respect your optimism, along with that of Mr.
Weaver's, for the success of this initiative as proposed. I have "come on down" for likely the last thirty years, and Good Lord willing, continue into the future. I certainly will be dropping my "copper in the hopper" for a joyride - and maybe even "bumper to bumper".




It was clear to me in April when i went by it that the station was no way going to be finished for August.. And going by it yesterday makes me wonder if it'll be ready before November.

However with that being said boy oh boy this service is NEEDED BAD. It took me 1 hour and 40 minutes to go from downtown to Hard Rock Stadium on Thursday.. (and there were zero accidents and certainly no traffic from dolphins fans (it was a preseason game)) Probably would've been another 20 plus minutes to FLL. Considering I did that drive once and never wanted to do it ever again I can only imagine what the daily commuters will do when Brightline opens. I KNOW it's going to be a huge hit...



A stop in Hollywood and maybe Boca would be beneficial for (local commuter inter service). PBI-BOC-FLL-HOL-MIA for your local service and MCO-PBI-FLL-MIA for your express service...
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Re: Brightline aka All Aboard Florida Orlando - Miami FL FEC

Postby Gilbert B Norman » Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:37 am

Off topic - kill at your discretion, Mr. Golden Arm.

I'm not known to be either a sports fan or an aficionado of popular music events, but Hard Rock Stadium, what's that?

Seems like that venue has got to win the "naming rights merry go round":

Wiki wrote:The stadium will host Super Bowl LIV in 2020. The facility opened in 1987 as Joe Robbie Stadium and has been known by a number of names since: Pro Player Park, Pro Player Stadium, Dolphins Stadium, Dolphin Stadium, Land Shark Stadium, and Sun Life Stadium


As close as I will have occasion to get to it will be the convergence of the Turnpike and 95 - and the forever congestion Mr. Central Valley notes.

Finally, to close AAF related, this site appears to offer a compilation of articles reported by Florida news sources and presumably will include new material as well:

https://www.thenextmiami.com
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Re: Brightline aka All Aboard Florida Orlando - Miami FL FEC

Postby chrsjrcj » Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:26 am

Considering that the stations include fare turnstiles and a security checkpoint, I doubt we will ever see a scheduled Brightline stop at a non-station. I'd be shocked if we ever see a temporary Cocoa-MCO bus shuttle or a temporary Wynwood stop until MiamiCentral is completed. That is simply not how they operate. Appearance and customer experience is #1, everything else comes after that.
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Re: Brightline aka All Aboard Florida Orlando - Miami FL FEC

Postby Gilbert B Norman » Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:27 am

chrsjrcj wrote:Considering that the stations include fare turnstiles and a security checkpoint......Appearance and customer experience is #1, everything else comes after that.


Turnstiles, I hope they work! Security, "in times like these..."

Even if they have scan cards, as distinct from swipe, even with scans, I've been locked out of hotel rooms, and with Atlanta MARTA - all happen at the worst of times.

I presume, like MARTA, you will have to scan out lest there be pay to WP, ride to McCOy. With only one fare systemwide, why MARTA requires it escapes me (vagrant control perhaps?).

Better not let your phone and that card get "huggy huggy".
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