Major Derailment in Hyndman PA

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Re: Major Derailment in Hyndman PA

Postby litz » Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:20 pm

Attempting to pull that train with multiples of applied hand brakes certainly didn't help anything, either.

That's basically just asking for a clothesline result on a tight curve.
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Re: Major Derailment in Hyndman PA

Postby mmi16 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:13 pm

litz wrote:Attempting to pull that train with multiples of applied hand brakes certainly didn't help anything, either.

That's basically just asking for a clothesline result on a tight curve.

Releasing all the hand brake is asking for a runaway. Train achieved 30 MPH WITH the 33 hand brakes applied and required the use of dynamic brakes 3 times. As I read the report it wasn't a 'string line' derailment but a buff force derailment as the tonnage behind the first car to derail force at least 1 wheel set to climb the rail and derail. Trailing tonnage pushing the car off the track.
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Re: Major Derailment in Hyndman PA

Postby Backshophoss » Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:02 pm

Believe the use of retainer valves on grades has become a lost method of speed control. :(
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Re: Major Derailment in Hyndman PA

Postby Gilbert B Norman » Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:30 am

Noel Weaver wrote:Here's something that I found on the union website this morning, interesting. I think 178 cars (loads and empties) is a bit too much to try to run over Sand Patch. I could say more about this one but not right now.

http://www.njherald.com/article/20170821/AP/308219755#

Some of this stuff may be in the other link previous but here it is anyway.

Noel Weaver


First, message quoted in its entirety as it appears on a previous page.

Mr. Weaver, you "did this stuff for a living", so don't you just "enjoy" this Associated Press Cub Reporter's knowledge of the Hours of Service Law?

Hafta say, a reader's comment made to the member newspaper regarding "Elmo" certainly is worth a read.
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Re: Major Derailment in Hyndman PA

Postby talltim » Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:06 am

Gilbert B Norman wrote:
Noel Weaver wrote:
Mr. Weaver, you "did this stuff for a living", so don't you just "enjoy" this Associated Press Cub Reporter's knowledge of the Hours of Service Law?


Could you expand on that? Not sure what you are getting at.
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Re: Major Derailment in Hyndman PA

Postby ccutler » Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:51 am

15000 tons behind 20+ empty high side gondolas, going down a steep grade. What could possibly go wrong? ;-)
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Re: Major Derailment in Hyndman PA

Postby Mandy Saxo » Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:29 am

I feel bad for the crew. That train probably screamed "I'm going on the ground" to them when they climbed on board...
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Re: Major Derailment in Hyndman PA

Postby BR&P » Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:41 pm

Mandy Saxo wrote:I feel bad for the crew. That train probably screamed "I'm going on the ground" to them when they climbed on board...


I can't imagine what would convince a crew that pulling a long heavy train downhill with 33 handbrakes applied partway back would be a good idea. Image

Then again, putting a large block of empties near the head end of such a train in that terrain is not good railroading.

It would seem to me that CSX is lacking in experienced knowledgeable people at several levels, from top to bottom.
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Re: Major Derailment in Hyndman PA

Postby Gilbert B Norman » Thu Aug 24, 2017 4:30 am

talltim wrote:
Gilbert B Norman wrote:
Noel Weaver wrote:Mr. Weaver, you "did this stuff for a living", so don't you just "enjoy" this Associated Press Cub Reporter's knowledge of the Hours of Service Law?


Could you expand on that? Not sure what you are getting at.

Mr.Tall Tim, here is the passage from.the AP article I was addressing;

After that crew's shift ended, a second crew....

More declarative would have been to state "After that crew had to be relieved under the Hours of Service Law, the relieving crew...."

I have always had high regards for AP's reporting of railroad industry affairs. I'm surprised that this "hardly world shaking" blunder got past their editors.

I of course defer to Mr. Weaver to report here regarding his railroad "CV" should he so choose.
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Re: Major Derailment in Hyndman PA

Postby BR&P » Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:39 am

I don't think the Hours of Service regs mean too much to John Q. Public. For probably 95% of the readers, the operative point is the first crew was done and new guys took over. That said, AP like most other news media has become a caricature of what journalism used to be. Grammar, syntax, accuracy, veracity and proofreading are notably deficient.
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Re: Major Derailment in Hyndman PA

Postby 161pw165 » Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:43 am

BR&P wrote:I don't think the Hours of Service regs mean too much to John Q. Public. For probably 95% of the readers, the operative point is the first crew was done and new guys took over. That said, AP like most other news media has become a caricature of what journalism used to be. Grammar, syntax, accuracy, veracity and proofreading are notably deficient.


Absolutely...
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Re: Major Derailment in Hyndman PA

Postby Gilbert B Norman » Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:27 am

Mr. 161 PW, I have always held the AP, second only to The New York Times and for that matter The Wall Street Journal's, capacity to fact check. Regarding the latter publication, even if "Elmo Yäger" does not agree, the Wednesday front page piece regarding CSX "meltdown" is balanced reporting, especially since they gave recognition to the several terminals where "dwell" time has improved.

Now the only negative to me is so far as the Ping Pong goes, I'm sure if the Traffic Manager was standing out on the dock and he saw cars that he knew were consigned to his facility, there was a "Grrrr" moment. But what if the C&E were almost out of time? I think WSJ should have offered some explanation such as I've noted as to why roads need at times to play Ping Pong.
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Re: Major Derailment in Hyndman PA

Postby BR&P » Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:17 am

Gilbert B Norman wrote:Mr. 161 PW, I have always held the AP, second only to The New York Times ..... capacity to fact check.


We agree on the similarity between the two. I dare say we disagree on whether they rate as outstanding or as abysmal.

The worst part of the CSX "transition" (to call it charitably) is that every bit of permanently lost traffic affects the entire move, be it a single-line or an interline move. The service issue which drives Wonder Widget Works in Massachusetts to trucks can also have a negative impact on some supplier in California on UP, which now has lost the move of raw widget material through no fault of their own.
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Re: Major Derailment in Hyndman PA

Postby Mandy Saxo » Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:27 am

"The worst part of the CSX "transition" (to call it charitably) is that every bit of permanently lost traffic affects the entire move, be it a single-line or an interline move. The service issue which drives Wonder Widget Works in Massachusetts to trucks can also have a negative impact on some supplier in California on UP, which now has lost the move of raw widget material through no fault of their own."

or more importantly, the short lines and regionals that can ill afford to lose ANY traffic.
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Re: Major Derailment in Hyndman PA

Postby BR&P » Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:13 am

Mandy Saxo wrote: or more importantly, the short lines and regionals that can ill afford to lose ANY traffic.


Image
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