MBTA's CP-3 to CP-4 in Allston

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Re: MBTA's CP-3 to CP-4 in Allston

Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:38 am

jaymac wrote:Given the lack of popularity and the surplus of resistance for locating the ethanol transload where it might have made some sense, Houghton may have made the decision just to wait and let others fight the battles.


Oh, definitely. If they're going to relocate, state largesse is going to pay for it. No reason for them to lift a finger or budge on their stance. When somebody ponies up a deal they like, they'll take it. But they won't get forced into anything that compromises their shipping convenience.

The good news is there are plenty of sites in and around town that fit the bill. So if the gov't is doing the legwork for the relocation they'll likely have multiple good options to choose from.
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Re: MBTA's CP-3 to CP-4 in Allston

Postby Teamdriver » Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:24 pm

With due respect to DDRUMS and F , I have been around the block a few times. I am not an insider, but I have seen alot in my time, with respect to rail disappearing , the Pru being built , Readville and Framingham being castrated , South Boston yards gone , East Cambridge being developed , much too much to iterate here. I miss the activity of the Southampton street meat yards , my formative years . One thing I never could understand , though , was Houghton Chemical being in the cellar of a hotel, never. The trailer doubles yard is gone , Coke is gone , Pepsi down the street is gone, that area is GOLD, Jerry , GOLD . , and it will not be allowed to be sullied by a chemical company in its final morphosis . I believe HC will either be in Chelsea or operate out of CSX Transload Westboro. That is just a gut reaction. They are in the drivers seat, for $$$ and also to get the welcoming mat put out for them by the state in regard to permits and containment regulations ect. That is just my feeling , serenity now , good josh , ad nauseum....

( NB I have nothing against chemicals . i was a cryo transport engineer at one time , this is a disclaimer , cryogenics are our friends , )
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Re: MBTA's CP-3 to CP-4 in Allston

Postby sery2831 » Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:10 pm

This thread is being moved as the content has little to do with the MBTA.
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Re: MBTA's CP-3 to CP-4 in Allston

Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:47 pm

http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/real_ ... 1&page=all

An MBTA spokesman confirmed that the transportation agency is considering the 18.6-acre site at Widett Circle as one of two dozen places to store trains. A decision is expected by next spring.


Eminent domain being considered for the cold storage warehouse at Widett Circle to make that the new expanded layover space. If this indeed happens it might mean the T does not opt to use its Beacon Park easement and the Pike realignment alternatives get amended for a straighter-still alignment through that easement. Stay tuned. The warehouse owners are trying to redevelop that site into a major recycling center, which obviously nonplusses the state. Horse-trading likely, nuclear option definitely in play.

This might speak to the Houghton Chemical negotiations too if they're playing hardball with the Widett warehouse and threatening to nuke its much bigger plans for the recycling center.
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Re: MBTA's CP-3 to CP-4 in Allston

Postby BandA » Fri Nov 01, 2013 3:29 am

F-line to Dudley via Park wrote:http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/real_estate/2013/10/mbta-considering-land-taking-in-southie.html?ana=e_bost_real&s=newsletter&ed=2013-10-31&page=all

An MBTA spokesman confirmed that the transportation agency is considering the 18.6-acre site at Widett Circle as one of two dozen places to store trains. A decision is expected by next spring.


Eminent domain being considered for the cold storage warehouse at Widett Circle to make that the new expanded layover space. If this indeed happens it might mean the T does not opt to use its Beacon Park easement and the Pike realignment alternatives get amended for a straighter-still alignment through that easement. Stay tuned. The warehouse owners are trying to redevelop that site into a major recycling center, which obviously nonplusses the state. Horse-trading likely, nuclear option definitely in play.

This might speak to the Houghton Chemical negotiations too if they're playing hardball with the Widett warehouse and threatening to nuke its much bigger plans for the recycling center.
It would be a lost opportunity not to keep the option of building their little layover yard at Beacon Park, even if they do the Widett Circle thing. The Worcester line has the potential to be heavily utilized; It can replace express buses and the Watertown "A" line, is the only line with potential to connect to North and South station. Imagine trains running Framingham-Boston with the same frequency and cost per mile as the Riverside "D" Highland Branch.

As for this not being related to MBTA forum, that has me completely confused since there is about one small freight per day. (The Framingham line is pretty boring now that the freight is gone)
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Re: MBTA's CP-3 to CP-4 in Allston

Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:09 pm

BandA wrote:
F-line to Dudley via Park wrote:http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/real_estate/2013/10/mbta-considering-land-taking-in-southie.html?ana=e_bost_real&s=newsletter&ed=2013-10-31&page=all

An MBTA spokesman confirmed that the transportation agency is considering the 18.6-acre site at Widett Circle as one of two dozen places to store trains. A decision is expected by next spring.


Eminent domain being considered for the cold storage warehouse at Widett Circle to make that the new expanded layover space. If this indeed happens it might mean the T does not opt to use its Beacon Park easement and the Pike realignment alternatives get amended for a straighter-still alignment through that easement. Stay tuned. The warehouse owners are trying to redevelop that site into a major recycling center, which obviously nonplusses the state. Horse-trading likely, nuclear option definitely in play.

This might speak to the Houghton Chemical negotiations too if they're playing hardball with the Widett warehouse and threatening to nuke its much bigger plans for the recycling center.
It would be a lost opportunity not to keep the option of building their little layover yard at Beacon Park, even if they do the Widett Circle thing. The Worcester line has the potential to be heavily utilized; It can replace express buses and the Watertown "A" line, is the only line with potential to connect to North and South station. Imagine trains running Framingham-Boston with the same frequency and cost per mile as the Riverside "D" Highland Branch.

As for this not being related to MBTA forum, that has me completely confused since there is about one small freight per day. (The Framingham line is pretty boring now that the freight is gone)


Yeah, but equipment deadheads all day through Yawkey and Back Bay are slots you can't fill with a saturation-density DMU. Build that site and you are making a choice to permanently put non-revenue traffic cycling through downtown on an unexpandable 2 tracks...forever. It's sub-ideal. It's also a very very difficult site to provide security on. People can and do hop the fence from the BU side to go exploring in Beacon Park, that entire length between Cambridge St. and the Pike viaduct. You can also hop the Pike guardrail from a car. It used to keep CSX busy catching the thrill-seekers darting between their cars on the graveyard shift. With a T layover, having such long multi-consist tracks out in the open makes it effortless for somebody to sneak in, climb the layover fence, and hide between consists from the cameras or night watchmen. Tagger's paradise. The only reason they have to design the Pike straightening to accommodate that site is because it's guaranteed available if the T can find no help with Widett Circle. It's nobody's idea of a top choice, but they have to provision.

They no longer have to provision if Widett is available. And no doubt the state is getting aggressive with Widett because they'd rather have a straighter Pike.



Second, the warehouse is not the only space available in Widett Circle. It's simply the first chess piece. They can do 8-10 consists of storage there parked closest to South Station of any layover space there, allowing them to scoot in and out with the minimum possible Amtrak interference. That's the best possible site to start expanding. But when they fill it there that asphalt with the salt pile on the other side of the loop track is the city car tow lot...so Expansion Space #2 in the same area requires only a public-public land swap. With more total space, and the same operational advantages. They truly will not need 12 layup tracks at Beacon Park if they take the private space, because Phase II expansion in 10 years or so after SS is expanded is much cheaper to pull off and only requires a handshake with the city. There are a bunch of blighted properties (for example, the vacant industrial lot just a parcel or two north of Andrew Station on the Red Line) to move the tow lot and keep it in transit distance for any poor sap who got his car towed.

LATER down the line...there's the Boston Food Market clogging up all that acreage in the middle of the circle. Land-swap them elsewhere within 20 years and that's the space where they could build a southside maint facility of equal heft to BET or to serve their future electric fleet, or do another two-dozen layover tracks, or some combination of the two. Real century-level permanent fixes for all conceivable storage needs. But they have to secure the first site to be able to set up all this later incremental expansion.

If the storage warehouse were allowed to do that recycling center, this parcel is gone for good and every other site is less favorable on ops. If they take it now either by relocating the business or just doing the nuclear option, they are set for life with the subsequent series of chess moves available to them. To the point where they could even start consolidating ops from Readville for everything except Fairmount + Stoughton layovers. Beacon Park is perfectly serviceable, but this is the best of all worlds and does scale enough to make BP expendable. I wouldn't have any concerns about that. It's still much easier to feed the Worcester Line straight out of SS rather than 3.5 miles away, any way you slice it.
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Re: MBTA's CP-3 to CP-4 in Allston

Postby bostontrainguy » Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:07 pm

The Boston Food Mart was already moved there years ago by the City from another location and just might have some kind of perpetual easement due to this. There is a large stream under the property so not all that much can be built there. It's an ideal layover location for the MBTA or Amtrak due to proximity to South station.

As far as Beacon Park, maybe the Houghton Chemical situation can be the catalyst that requires retaining a rail line on the north side of the new aligned Mass Pike. It would be stupid to eliminate the Grand Junction connection and perhaps building a lowered Mass Pike under the BU Bridge would allow a real wye to the Grand Junction with a spur to the Houghton facility.

Now the possibility for Worcester - North Station trains is retained but also the possibility of Amtrak Downeaster service from South Station could be explored. How much money would that save Amtrak and how much more convenient would that be for Amtrak Passengers? I know it might take a little more time traveling that way around, but certainly not more time than transferring via Back Bay/Orange Line.

It's kind of amazing realizing that Boston has THREE Amtrak Stations!
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Re: MBTA's CP-3 to CP-4 in Allston

Postby Rockingham Racer » Sun May 18, 2014 2:02 pm

Anybody have an update on this?
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Re: MBTA's CP-3 to CP-4 in Allston

Postby boatsmate » Sat Jul 05, 2014 9:18 am

Drove by CP3 and CP4 last Sunday Saw a Barricade sign on both ends of the run around (track 2?) and some construction equipment parked by the CP hut. could not see what was going on ( driving by at highway speed)
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